Problem with Gear Box

[belfastguzzi]

...ordered both pieces to Stein Dinse, but pawl arm are not in their stock, so we have to wait for MG delivery time (2-3weeks, may be more in august)...

 

Have measured the diameter of the post on the pawl arm you have now?

 

KB

Baldi, that's what I was asking but he doesn't have the measurements.

JB, if you are not sure which bit to measure, you can see in the photos, but post back here when you have the new parts and are doing the work.

MZ, I sort of thought that as well: might as well just put a new arm in anyway. On the other hand, if it is the correct pawl arm, I can't see that it should need replaced in the normal life of the bike. Also, if somehow there is variation in the size of later arm dimensions (such as 2004) then you might get another bad one and fit it. Best thing is to know what is in the box and if it's good, then let it be – but keep changing the danged spring! ?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I seem to recall someone just taking to the boss with a file to reduce the diameter enough to accomodate the spring, the other option would be to wind a new spring yourself slightly larger. How about a bicycle spoke for spring stock?

[Baldini]

Maybe I'm missing something but surely if J Bastida's got the spring out to find it's broken, he must also have access to the pawl arm to check the size? No point in his waiting on a new pawl arm if one he's got is correct size?

 

KB

[gstallons]

I seem to recall someone just taking to the boss with a file to reduce the diameter enough to accomodate the spring, the other option would be to wind a new spring yourself slightly larger. How about a bicycle spoke for spring stock?

 

 

I don't think bicycle spokes are made from spring steel stock ?

[belfastguzzi]

Maybe I'm missing something but surely if J Bastida's got the spring out to find it's broken, he must also have access to the pawl arm to check the size? No point in his waiting on a new pawl arm if one he's got is correct size?

 

 

Some Italian Detective you are!

 

I deduce from the original postings that the original spring broke in 2011, having survived for 13k Km. I declare, by the postmark, that it was August-September 2011, or thereabouts.

It was replaced at a dealers, while the owner was not looking.

 

Subsequently, after the passage of another 13k, there has been a second ping-tinkle. The owner surmises that the spring has again expired or been assassinated.

On that basis he has ordered a full investigation (on here) and replacement parts (from there) – but he will not disassemble and look until the new parts arrive. Due to the fiendish ways of the Italianos, said parts may not arrive until... September!

 

So, what do you make of those deductions?

 

 

 

[belfastguzzi]

I seem to recall someone just taking to the boss with a file to reduce the diameter enough to accomodate the spring, the other option would be to wind a new spring yourself slightly larger. How about a bicycle spoke for spring stock?

 

 

Yes, that was what I did in the temporary repair period, before getting new parts. I filed down the oversized boss and I bent a new hook on the broken spring. This was fitted and worked fine, but I put new parts in when they arrived at a later stage. The pictures should be in the FAQ topic.

 

 

[Baldini]

...So, what do you make of those deductions?[/size][/font]

That may well be, but I think I'd take it out & have a look before assuming the same issue, it's not as if he can use it meantimes...& maybe it's something else.

I've heard it said that assumption is the mother of all cock-ups.

 

KB

[JBastida]

Hi guys, and sorry for my late reply.

Belfastguzzi deductions are completely right

And Baldini is right too: may be this is not the most logical way to proceed, but I have to carry the bike far away to my mechanic so I try to optimize my tryp to the workshop. I know I run a risk, and we will not know it till we open the box, but I´m not worried as symptoms are exactly the sames.

I was wayting for a new neutral shaft switch since four weeks ago too, so I hope to receive everything soon and change everithing at the same time.

 

I'm waiting for MG spare parts, so, be patient...

 

I hope not to look like an idiot in a few days.

 

Best regards. And thankyou very much.

[belfastguzzi]

JB, I just remembered when replying in another thread that the 'new' spring is made with a wider coil diameter to work on the incorrect pawl arm without binding. Therefore, in theory, the pawl arm should not matter – just fit a new spring.

 

In practise, you will probably feel safer with the new 'big' spring and a pawl arm with the original 'small' spring boss.

 

Whatever you do, make sure you look carefully at how the parts work together and measure the diameters.

[JBastida]

JB, I just remembered when replying in another thread that the 'new' spring is made with a wider coil diameter to work on the incorrect pawl arm without binding. Therefore, in theory, the pawl arm should not matter – just fit a new spring.

 

In practise, you will probably feel safer with the new 'big' spring and a pawl arm with the original 'small' spring boss.

 

Whatever you do, make sure you look carefully at how the parts work together and measure the diameters.

That's why I don't understand why this happend again. The dealer who change the spring last time, told me he placed a new (wider) spring, in an old pawl arm (as he didn't change pawl arm). That's why I will try to change everything this time, as MOTO GUZZI recomended in its recall.

Anyway I'll check all pieces this time.

 

To be continued...

[JBastida]

By 2004, I should think the bike would have the correct pawl arm? Sorry I can't remember the various details now.

 

According to the recall I posted above, problem was solved in 2003. So I've been checking serial number:

According to the recall bikes affected are between KT111435 and KS112350. My serial number is ZGUKIB0104M112043. I don't understand very much these numbers, but if I compare the last six numbers, my serial number is among bikes affected in spite of it is from 2004. Isn't it?

[JBastida]

Spare parts are already here. 40 days delivery period, not bad for Moto Guzzi

 

Spring inside diameter (in milimeters): 16,85mm

Spring reference 04238300

 

 

Pawl arm diameter(in milimeters): 15mm

Pawl arm reference 01235130

 

Next week I´ll post measures of the old pieces.

 

Regards.

[Skeeve]

That's why I don't understand why this happend again.

 

It happened because you bought an Italian spring of unknown origin.

 

For some reason, only a few countries seem to turn out decent springs that last.

[JBastida]

The outcome.... (I hope so)

 

I look like an idiot, but not as much as I use to do

 

Spring were broken. It was the correct one: reference 04238300.... but it broke again.

Pawl arm was the correct one too. As MOTO GUZZI states, from last 2003 V11s on, pawl arms are the correct ones (15mm of diameter), reference 01235130.... But spring broke again.

So, I asume spring are not properly made.

Here the photograf of the broken spring next to the one I bought to fix it. You can see were the spirng broke this time. You can see too pawl arm. Is the one that comes mounted in the bike from the factory(15mm of diameter). My bike is fron 2004.

 

As it doesn´t seem to be a good idea to replace the spring again, so it will broke in 13.000 km, my very skilled and experienced craftsman Guzzi mechanic fixed it this way: He removed the V spring along pawl arm, and placed a spring 90º degrees from pawl arm.

 

After the first kilometers everything seems to work great.

I hope this will last longer

 

Best regards.

[luhbo]

The outcome.... (I hope so)

 

...

 

... my very skilled and experienced craftsman Guzzi mechanic fixed it this way...

 

 

Kudos!

 

Hubert