Changing the Scura Clutch.Options for replacments.

[emry]

300 Scura's in the first batch and another 300 in the "that was a good idea!!" second batch (Reported somewhere...). Of the first batch only ~35 remained in the US, 50 or so imported orginally. (According to an ex-MG employee info, most were re-exported due to lack of sales) I have 10k on mine, crack tested twice; I added washers very early on maybe 1k miles. From general observations the occurance seems to be much more "common" place than generally known. I have never found a reliable number on the second batch and where they went. Heck they most likely had different parts in them, knowing Guzzi's small batch purchasing perchant.

 

If Guzzi had sold 10,000 Scura's it would have been a recall. In the US NTSHA goes after the big fish. Since they don't care, neither does the OEM. At least I got some riding gear for the crappy paint on the cases. Not that was much consolidation, I just didn't trust my local MG tech's to replace my cases; heck they couldn't fix a front cover leak.

[pete roper]

A couple of things.

 

The V11 twin plate set-up is the same as the unit used on Hi-Cams, (Early Hi-Cams.) and 1100 Sports The 'Old' Hi-Cam produces much more power and torque than the V11. It is tried and tested. It also was uprated with the Hi Cams and later bikes to a 10 spring system to increase the clamping force. Yes, if you hammer it constantly it'll wear out quicker. Well Derrr!!!!!!

 

The single plate idea was originally a 'Cure' for racers who wanted their flywheels really light to help with rapid engine speed changes when swapping cogs with the old five speed box. Sure, it's a good idea. A single plate unit is also a lot CHEAPER than radically lightening an earlier 'Heavy' flywheel, believe me, I know. Those wheels are murder on cutting tools and setting up the head for the cuts used to be a c@nt! Maybe it's easier now. I dunno.

 

Volume production of bikes that wanted 'Different' characteristics meant that Guzzi started making lightweight flywheels and ring gears for their twin plater and upped the spring count to 10 to add clamping force. On 5 Speed bikes this makes for a willy shrivellingly heavy clutch, especially on Centauros for some reason, but with the advent of the six speed box and hydraulic operation meant that ratios could be managed to make the pull acceptable again.

 

Thing is Guzzi owners being Guzzi owners the myth persisted that for slick changes you needed a 'Single Plate Clutch'. Who says that Guzzi never listened to their customers! They built the Scura with a single plate clutch. But rather than using the long established RAM unit they insisted on re-designing it a bit, badly, and at least the ones on the Scura are awful. I've had at least four blown up ones through my workshop and 'm just one workshop in a very small market. You do the sums, I can't be arsed!

 

When I bought my, now Chuck's, Scura from a member of this board I knew that the first thing I wanted to do was piss off the single plater. I think they are poison. You can think what you like but the idea of something weighing a couple of kilos suddenly deciding to come to pieces at 7000RPM about 300cm away from my naughty bits gives me the willies. So I did.

 

Not only is the lightweight twin plater, to me at least, indistinguishably 'heavier' or more massive in it's rotating mass when I'm riding hard but it doesn't make a horrid noise at idle, works every bit as well as the single plater and I don't fear its going to give me an aluminium proctological examination when I'm 'Giving it the Berries'.

 

Yes, it probably is a trifle more massive. So much the better if you want to act the goat and pull monster wheelies! While it's not only the flywheel know I've NEVER ridden such a wheelie happy Guzzi as Chuck's Scura. It's bonkers! And part of that must be down to that little bit of extra flywheel mass!!!!

 

For all the above reasons I think the single plater is horrid. I think the RAM aftrmarket unit is less likely to fracture, (Although I have seen this too.) bu it is only availabel nowadays with a bronze 'Racing' plate with a lifespan measured in hours. If that's what you want? Go for it! It's a bit spendy and labour intensive though.

 

Make your own choices. I have a lot of experience and I'm not selling anything so if I have an ulterior motive for my suggestions I'dd love to hear them. I need a good laugh......

 

Pete

[Skeeve]

Make your own choices. I have a lot of experience and I'm not selling anything so if I have an ulterior motive for my suggestions I'dd love to hear them. I need a good laugh......

 

Pete

 

Give it up, Pete! We all know that you're really only involved in the highly lucrative Guzzi repair business as a mean of bankrolling your money-losing midget porn empire!

 

Your blatant attempts to get the hordes of Guzzi owners possessed of machines with the common-place & infallible single-plate clutch to replace them with the trouble-prone and esoteric twin platers can only be justified by your avarice and expectations of numerous juicy work contracts.

 

Yeah, yeah, that's it!..

 

BTW, when are you going to take me scuba-diving in the Coral Sea on your yacht w/ naked bimbos? You can leave the midgets behind, I like them long, lean & luscious ladies... [(I said ladies, LADIES d@mmit! Only one "D"! Sheesh!... )

 

[mznyc]

Thanks Pete. Always appreciate input from people who've been gettin their hands dirty on these beasts for years.Opinion based on fact is what Im lookin for

 

Anybody have any experience with these?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260868724064&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:US:1123

 

Anybody know if V11's have a 4mm spline on the input hub?Found a Centuro clutch but want to make sure it will fit.

[pete roper]

Cent clutch will work fine. You'll need a different clutch boss to the one on your Scura gearbox though.

[mznyc]

Found a used 98 California EV Clutch assembly.I think all Cali's are 5 speeders,any problem with fittment? Do I need anything else?P Roper said if I went with a Centuro clutch I would need a different clutch boss.Couldn't find that in MG parts diagram.Could someone enlighten a clutch newb what that is?

The assembly I found looks good ,may need friction plates.Anyone use SD-Tech plates? MG cycle sells them so would assume they are reliable,just wondering if anyone has any personal experience of them.

Thanks

Michael

[pete roper]

Found a used 98 California EV Clutch assembly.I think all Cali's are 5 speeders,any problem with fittment? Do I need anything else?P Roper said if I went with a Centuro clutch I would need a different clutch boss.Couldn't find that in MG parts diagram.Could someone enlighten a clutch newb what that is?

The assembly I found looks good ,may need friction plates.Anyone use SD-Tech plates? MG cycle sells them so would assume they are reliable,just wondering if anyone has any personal experience of them.

Thanks

Michael

 

Cali clutch assy. is MUCH heavier than the lightweight units used in Spineys. In and of itself this is not a deal breaker but it will change the character of the bike. FWIW I have an Eldo flywheel in my SP1000 and love it. But I accept that I'm strange...

 

Pete

[Baldini]

Yes, all Calis were 5 speeds as were all 1100Sports, Daytonas, Centauros etc. V11 6speed gearbox is not used in anything else.

 

Clutch hub (variously called clutch centre, centre boss, clutch gear etc) is #6 in second diagram. I'm not sure about compatability of hubs.

 

Also not sure 5 & 6 speed clutch pushrods (#6 in first diag) are interchangable - I doubt it given 6 speed is shorter & pushrod runs thru length of box - check length & diameter...before you assemble it!

 

KB

[pete roper]

Good point Keith, I'm pretty certain the single and twin plate clutches use different pushrods but I could be wrong. Make sure you check it.

[mznyc]

Thanks guys, great info.

I got an email in to Pete at Reboot,but he's off for a couple days,so hopefully some answers by next week.

[mznyc]

Heard from Pete at Reeboot.

The unit he has is a 10 spring twin-plater from a low mileage Griso with correct pushrod hub.He said starter gear is clean and will inspect internals once disassembled .He said the 10 springers are much lighter than the 8's.

What do you guys think?

I have no experience with the feel and performance of the CARC clutch's .What about durability.PR,I know you have first hand knowledge of the Scura and Griso, so would appreciate your take on this swap

Cheers

Michael

[guzzi323]

Heard from Pete at Reeboot.

The unit he has is a 10 spring twin-plater from a low mileage Griso with correct pushrod hub.He said starter gear is clean and will inspect internals once disassembled .He said the 10 springers are much lighter than the 8's.

What do you guys think?

I have no experience with the feel and performance of the CARC clutch's .What about durability.PR,I know you have first hand knowledge of the Scura and Griso, so would appreciate your take on this swap

Cheers

Michael

I bought the same clutch from reboot for my Scura and it went in with no problems. It's definitely a little slower to rev and the effort at the clutch lever feels a little higher but it's still quite reasonable. I'm very happy with the clutch and the peace of mind it offers.

 

johnk

[mznyc]

Great thanks for the info John

Michael

[mznyc]

Decided to go with the Griso double plate from Reboot.

I'll be starting a "How To" about pulling the motor and clutch with pictures, as I couldn't find one and I think it would help anyone in the future who wants to tackle this job.

All advice and help will be appreciated as Ive never done this.I'm more brave than smart

[leafman60]

I guess I have been the odd man out on the Scura clutch situation. Although I have sold my Scura, I remember this internet frenzy about the clutch.

 

I loved the stock clutch and aluminum flywheel. It was the best-performing Guzzi clutch that I'd ever used. Pull is so light and take-up is so clean. The motor revs quickly and with spunk. I loved it.

 

I was never convinced that the clutch problems talked about were as widespread as many people believed. Yeah, some pics from europe of an exploded flywheel an holes in the engine cases are striking. However, I asked a prominent tech guy and dealer if there was ever any problems with the venerated twin-plate clutch. "Not very often" he replied but occasionally something did happen even to those he said.

 

So, my speculation was that the incidents of single plate failures may be within some typical rate of incidents, much in the same way as with the twin-plate clutch. I just never believed that ALL single plate Guzzi clutches would grenade. I have known of a good number of them that did not.

 

I dunno. I think if I was having trouble with my single plate Guzzi clutch, Id remove it and look things over. I'd be sure to check the bolts on the flywheel and maybe try to add some washers to the heads if they werent there. If I didn't see anything amiss, I'd bolt it all up and try again.

I've seen quite a few pictures of the Scura flywheels with cracks in them. If Guzzi only made 600 or so Scura's then the problem is much higher than 2% of them. The clutch disc is a wearable item and if I owned a Scura with that flywheel, the next time the disc needed replaced the flywheel would be replaced. The problem with that flywheel is if it does go and you're moving pretty fast when it does its going to be very bad.

 

 

Id inspect it but, if no cracks, put some washers on the bolt heads to spread out the stress and use it again. It works great. By the way, Ive seen many pics of the flywheel with no cracks at all. Im wondering if a few did not have the bolts properly torqued.