Could droopy tits twin-turbo kit fit perky tits bra?

[ScuRoo]

Hi fella's

 

Well... are you thinking what I'm thinking?

 

My link

 

- WHY NOT?!!!

[Skeeve]

Hi fella's

 

Well... are you thinking what I'm thinking?

 

My link

 

- WHY NOT?!!!

 

Easier on the boxer WBM motor since the intake is more evenly distributed and there's more space for the plumbing.

 

I still stand by my assertion that superchargers [being linear] are better for bikes, but there are some mini turbos out there rated for ~250-750cc motors, so two of those would work nicely on the Guzzi ~530cc/cylinder...

[ScuRoo]

Been a bit naughty enquiring about the cost but thought 70% increase so interesting

it had to be done - I'm guessing it might be reasonably easy to adapt to a V11!!

 

In Sterling the price works out to be £5675 - this is cheap if comparasion on a £/hp basis, no?

 

Performing all the head work, valve train gear, cams, lightened flywheel, exhaust system,

lighter & stronger conrods, hi-comp pistons and custom ecu mapping etc., would cost

substantially more and with all that may not even come close to the huge 70% increase. Or would that be wrong?

 

David, the Dacar MotorSport Europe Sales Manager emailed the following:

For sure questions and enquiries are for free!! :-)

 

The main characteristics of the kit are:

- auto installation at home

- no modifications of the original bike (mechanical or electronical)

- the kit completed of all: stainless steel exaust and intake manifolds,

additional injectors, additional oil pump (for turbines), wastegate valve,

exaust till the terminal, additional lambda sensor, intercoolers, additional

ECU, new sparks.

- the turbo kit gives to the bike more power but quite the same torque not to

damage the transmission; the power curve is constant but not vertical.

- especially with the bike at full load you can use the sixth gear al low speed

and use the bike as a scooter; during the summer in altitude the engine is

always full without poor intake power holes.

 

The kit cost is 6.612 + shipping cost.

 

Kind regards,

Davide

 

 

Davide Casetti

Sales Manager

Dacar MotorSport Europe

[ScuRoo]

Dacar Power Charts:

 

http://www.dacarmotorsport.com/site2011/uploads/72_o.jpg

 

http://www.dacarmotorsport.com/site2011/uploads/73_o.jpg

 

...shedding some facts on the subject!

[Guzzi2Go]

How does this work?

- the turbo kit gives to the bike more power but quite the same torque not to

damage the transmission; the power curve is constant but not vertical.

- especially with the bike at full load you can use the sixth gear al low speed

and use the bike as a scooter; during the summer in altitude the engine is

always full without poor intake power holes.

 

Power is a product of torque and RPM.

 

First bullet - Increasing power at constant torque implies increase of RPM. RPM is controlled by your wrist and, eventually, rev limiter. What is actually turbo doing here?

 

Second bullet - sixth gear and low speed means low RPM. Again, constant torque, low RPM. What actually changed here?

 

So thist must be badly phrased (if nothing else). The torque must change, but what the guy seems to be claiming, not over the max torque value. But then again, where do 70% power increase come from? 70% more RPM?

[luhbo]

Another question: the efficiency of the whole process will stay nearly the same, means you'll still have about 70% losses dissipated as heat. If he claims 70% increase of power output he should also talk about roughly 70% additional heat output.

 

Hubert

[Guzzi2Go]

Another question: the efficiency of the whole process will stay nearly the same, means you'll still have about 70% losses dissipated as heat. If he claims 70% increase of power output he should also talk about roughly 70% additional heat output.

 

Hubert

 

Which probably isn't a big deal at >4000m altitude, which seems to be what this thing is designed for. Not to mention the extra petrol...

 

"A great challenge all Otto-Cycle engines suffer, is working on high altitudes. It is estimated that in a high altitude trip, as much as 50% power can be lost due to thinner air. With the twin turbo BMW GS1200 kit and it’s turbo pressure control, this loss is not existant as it is compensated by the Borg Warner custom turbochargers. The gains are translated when you travel through Chile with 170 bhp instead of the 50 you would have with the naturally aspirated bike."

 

Yeah right...

 

Also this:

 

The main characteristics of the kit are:

- auto installation at home

Promissing!

 

- no modifications of the original bike (mechanical or electronical)

Getting better and better!

 

- the kit completed of all: stainless steel exaust and intake manifolds, additional injectors, additional oil pump (for turbines), wastegate valve, exaust till the terminal, additional lambda sensor, intercoolers, additional ECU, new sparks.

Er? No mechanical (exhaust, manifolds, oil pump, ...) nor electronical (lambda sensor, ECU, ...) modifications?

 

So apart from wheels, frame and lights..., no changes whatsoever.

[ScuRoo]

You fella's raised some valid point so I just kinda rejigged it all into my email to him to see what the answers would be from the horses mouth. Davide of Dacar has responded in CAPITALS. Twin-turbo's in a turn-key kit is still gotta be an interesting mod - if it ultimately stacks up to scrutiny!

 

What do you think?

 

FIRST OF ALL I'M ATTACHING A COUPLE OF FILES:

- A FILE OF OUR TEST WE MADE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO: YOU CAN SEE A LOW SPEED TEST

(FROM 1ST TO 6TH GEAR) AND THE INCREASING OF SPEED. THIS FILE IS PART OF THE

DATAS WE RECORDED THROUGH OUR DACAR DATA LOGGER

- THE FILE OF THE BANNER WITH THE POWER CURVE

I'LL ANSWER CLOSE TO YOUR QUESTION

 

I'm interested - but - I have some candid questions for you.

 

How does this really work then??

 

"the turbo kit gives to the bike more power but quite the same torque not to

 

damage the transmission; the power curve is constant but not vertical.

 

- especially with the bike at full load you can use the sixth gear at low speed

 

and use the bike as a scooter; during the summer in altitude the engine is

 

always full without poor intake power holes."

 

Power is a product of torque and RPM. RIGHT, IF YOU ANALYSE THE POWER CURVE YOU

COULD SEE THAT THE INCREASING OF THE POWER IS ALONG THE ORIGINAL POWER CURVE AND

THE ORIGINAL RPM.

YOU HAVE SOME HP MORE BETWEEN 3000 AND 4000 (IN ORDER TO HAVE POWER IN LOWER

RANGE) THEN THE 2 CURVES ARE VERY SIMILAR UP TO 6000; THERE THE ORIGINAL ENGINE

STOPS TO GIVE POWER AND THE CURVE BECOMES FLAT, THE TURBO STILL PUSH NO

MODIFYING A LOT THE INCIDENCE OF THE ORIGINAL CURVE UP TO 8000 RPM; SO YOU CAN

SEE THAT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE POWER IS NOT VIOLENT OR BRUTAL (THE RATIO OF THE

CURVE NOWHERE IS VERTICAL!).

 

First question - Increasing power at constant torque implies increase of RPM.

RPM is controlled by your wrist and, eventually, rev limiter. What is actually

turbo doing here? THE SPEED LIMIT IS STILL CONTROLLED BY THE ORIGINAL ELECTRONIC

CONTROL AND NO TRANSMISSION RATIO HAS BEEN CHANGED, SO THE MAX SPEED IS THE

SAME, AS THE RPM

 

Second question - sixth gear and low speed means low RPM. Again, constant

torque, low RPM. What actually changed here? IN TRUTH, AS YOU COULD SEE, AT 3000

YOU HAVE SOME MORE HP AND SOME MORE TORQUE BUT WE ARE IN THE LOWEST PART OF THE

POWER CURVE, SO THE MORE POWER AND TORQUE WE HAVE IS NOT DANGEROUS FOR THE

MECHANIC.

 

So, what you say must be badly phrased (if nothing else). The torque must

change, but what you seem to be claiming, not over the max torque value. But

then again, where do 70% power increase come from? 70% more RPM?

I HOPE I HAVE EXPLAINED BEFORE AND LOOKING AT THE POWER CURVE.

 

The above are the primary questions that require further full clarification.

 

 

One last question: the efficiency of the whole process will stay nearly the

same, means there'll still be about 70% losses dissipated as heat.

 

WE HAVE SOME MORE HEAT AND WE SUPPLY ADDITIONAL SPARKS FOR WORKING AT HIGHER

TEMPERATURE.

THE ANALYSIS WE MADE ON THE DYNAMOMETER AND ON THE ROAD HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY BAD

RESULT: THE AIR COOLING SYSTEM OF THE ENGINE CAN COOL DOWN ALSO THIS INCREASING

 

If there are claims of 70% increase of power output there should roughly be 70%

additional heat output - which probably isn't a big deal at >4000m altitude, as

it seems to be what this kit is designed for. (Not to mention the extra

petrol...)

ABOUT THE EXTRA PATROL: WE HAVE NOT MADE ANY KIND OF CONSUMPTION TEST, BUT I CAN

IMAGINE THAT THE RESULT COULD BE SIMILAR TO THE MODIFIED ECU FOR CARS TO HAVE

MORE POWER: TO REACH THE SAME RPM YOU USE LESS GAS THEN WITH THE ORIGINAL ECU

BECAUSE YOU HAVE MORE POWER. SO THE EXTRA PATROL USED IS COMPENSATED BY THE LESS

USE OF THE GAS PEDAL. ON MY CAR I HAVE DECREASED THE CONSUMPTION.

 

"A great challenge all Otto-Cycle engines suffer, is working on high altitudes.

It is estimated that in a high altitude trip, as much as 50% power can be lost

due to thinner air. With the twin turbo BMW GS1200 kit and it’s turbo pressure

control, this loss is not existant as it is compensated by the Borg Warner

custom turbochargers. The gains are translated when you travel through Chile

with 170 bhp instead of the 50 you would have with the naturally aspirated

bike."

 

So, in summing up:

 

"the main characteristics of the kit are:

 

- auto installation at home

 

- no modifications of the original bike (mechanical or electronical)

 

- the kit completed of all: stainless steel exaust and intake manifolds,

additional injectors, additional oil pump (for turbines), wastegate valve,

exhaust till the terminal, additional lambda sensor, intercoolers, additional

ECU, new sparks."

 

Is that really it? No other mechanical (exhaust, manifolds, oil pump, ...) nor

electronical (lambda sensor, ECU, ...) modifications?

OF THE ORIGINAL PARTS NO: OF THE COMPLETE EXAUST SYSTEM YOU CAN KEEP YOUR

TERMINAL PART, THE 2 ORIGINAL LAMBDA SENSORS ARE MOUNTED ON OUR EXAUST + 1 MORE

LAMBDA SENSOR (ALL THE ORIGINAL SENSORS AND INJECTORS STILL WORK WITH THE

ORIGINAL ECU); OUR ADDITIONAL ECU IS CONTROLLING THE ADDITIONAL INJECTOR, THE

ADDITIONAL LAMBDA SENSOR, THE ADDITIONAL OIL PUMP FOR TURBINES LUBRICATING.

I'LL SEND TO YOU BY WETRANSFER THE INSTALLATION MANUAL TO HAVE A LOOK OF IT.

 

ON DECEMBER THE 16TH THE ITALIAN MOST KNOW BIKE MAGAZINE "MOTOCICLISMO" ASKED TO

HAVE THE EXCLUSIVITY OF THE TEST IN MONZA CIRCUIT; I'LL SEND TO YOU THE ARTICLE

AS SOON AS I HAVE IT.

IN THE MEANWHILE YOU COULD SEE THE VIDEO WE MADE AT THE INTERNATIONAL MOTORBIKE

SHOW IN MILAN THIS MONTH.

 

dacar test_18nov20111.pdf

[luhbo]

Ask him why they see no need for lowering the compression ratio. If I'm right than these Beemers are already at nearly 1:12 or so, static. Can't think of how this should work then. On the other hand, this Dacar seems not to be a Togo based internet fake. Where does their money come from?

 

Hubert

[Guzzi2Go]

You fella's raised some valid point so I just kinda rejigged it all into my email to him to see what the answers would be from the horses mouth. Davide of Dacar has responded in CAPITALS. Twin-turbo's in a turn-key kit is still gotta be an interesting mod - if it ultimately stacks up to scrutiny!

 

What do you think?

 

...

Talking like a true salesman....

 

THE SPEED LIMIT IS STILL CONTROLLED BY THE ORIGINAL ELECTRONIC CONTROL AND NO TRANSMISSION RATIO HAS BEEN CHANGED, SO THE MAX SPEED IS THE SAME, AS THE RPM

- Same max speed, same rpm, same torque. (???)

 

IN TRUTH, AS YOU COULD SEE, AT 3000 YOU HAVE SOME MORE HP AND SOME MORE TORQUE BUT WE ARE IN THE LOWEST PART OF THE POWER CURVE, SO THE MORE POWER AND TORQUE WE HAVE IS NOT DANGEROUS FOR THE MECHANIC.

- I am sure mechanic sees it the same way. ;-)

 

I HOPE I HAVE EXPLAINED BEFORE AND LOOKING AT THE POWER CURVE.

- Looking at any of the power curves linked to above there is actually twice as much torque (and so power) then in the original configuration. That may actually be dangerous for the mechanics (and innocent bystanders)

 

WE HAVE SOME MORE HEAT AND WE SUPPLY ADDITIONAL SPARKS FOR WORKING AT HIGHER TEMPERATURE. THE ANALYSIS WE MADE ON THE DYNAMOMETER AND ON THE ROAD HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY BAD RESULT: THE AIR COOLING SYSTEM OF THE ENGINE CAN COOL DOWN ALSO THIS INCREASING

- Kind of missed the point...

 

ABOUT THE EXTRA PATROL: WE HAVE NOT MADE ANY KIND OF CONSUMPTION TEST, BUT I CAN IMAGINE THAT THE RESULT COULD BE SIMILAR TO THE MODIFIED ECU FOR CARS TO HAVE MORE POWER: TO REACH THE SAME RPM YOU USE LESS GAS THEN WITH THE ORIGINAL ECU BECAUSE YOU HAVE MORE POWER. SO THE EXTRA PATROL USED IS COMPENSATED BY THE LESS USE OF THE GAS PEDAL. ON MY CAR I HAVE DECREASED THE CONSUMPTION.

- This one too...