Alternator with higher output?

[luhbo]

Ok, I'll make you a (virtual) sketch for what I'm asking you:

 

Your starter seems to work better now than before. Could you imagine that the reason for this could possibly be the fact that you changed the starter from cheapo crap to an expensive new Valeo?

 

Hubert

[dark_bike]

Ok, I'll make you a (virtual) sketch for what I'm asking you:

 

Your starter seems to work better now than before. Could you imagine that the reason for this could possibly be the fact that you changed the starter from cheapo crap to an expensive new Valeo?

 

Hubert

 

I think it is, yes. I'll make some pictures of the Alanko starter which shows curious signs of wear on the gear that the expired starter it replaced did not show. when it was cold it would struggle for the first few turns as if it had problems overcoming the viscosity of the oil in the bearings or something like that...once it got turning it would start the engine but not nearly as energetic as the Valeo, which buzzes the engine into life literally at the push of a button. chuff chuff chuff broooum :-)

 

to me it seems that the Alanko not only drew more current but did less with it than the Valeo. A false economy if ever there was one. The alanko is fine if you only ride at 20C plus or so but as soon as circumstances become more demanding it is crap.

 

In the end I think my problem of an insufficiently recharged battery was compounded by a dodgy starter.

[Guzzi2Go]

This thing: http://www.alanko.de/Starter/Starter::2044.html ???

 

Looks almost real....

[dark_bike]

This thing: http://www.alanko.de/Starter/Starter::2044.html ???

 

Looks almost real....

 

not quite that model but that's the company. Probably made in China, or merde in China as they say in France...

Unfortunately the automatic gearbox of my car packed up roughly around the same time so my wallet was gasping :-(...otherwise I'd gone for a Valeo straightaway. Interestingly my local dealer charged about €500 for as starter motor. Thats when I joined my wallet in gasping...

[moto fugazzi]

I just noticed having the same issue as well, after hooking up a permanent volt meter to my V11 Sport. Max voltage is 13.9 at higher RPM's, around 12.6 at idle.

Diode test came in at a reading of 476 on my Craftsman multimeter, and reverse was 1. According to the manual, this reading is in ohms, and it should be approx. 700 ohms when tested properly, and the # 1 should show when leads are reversed.

I do remember the PO telling me he added relays to everything, so I'm pretty sure he bypassed the regulator wire and original harness-I'm still looking for the new schematics he gave me. Not sure if he did the same with the headlight or not, but it's always on when the key is on.

Looks like it may be time to add the diode in series. Any comments, or ideas on what else to check for?

What rating diode do I need? I can't find the N4001 here in the USA like somebody else used.

 

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

I just noticed having the same issue as well, after hooking up a permanent volt meter to my V11 Sport. Max voltage is 13.9 at higher RPM's, around 12.6 at idle.

Diode test came in at a reading of 476 on my Craftsman multimeter, and reverse was 1. According to the manual, this reading is in ohms, and it should be approx. 700 ohms when tested properly, and the # 1 should show when leads are reversed.

I do remember the PO telling me he added relays to everything, so I'm pretty sure he bypassed the regulator wire and original harness-I'm still looking for the new schematics he gave me. Not sure if he did the same with the headlight or not, but it's always on when the key is on.

Looks like it may be time to add the diode in series. Any comments, or ideas on what else to check for?

What rating diode do I need? I can't find the N4001 here in the USA like somebody else used.

 

Ken

Your diode reading is about right 476 milliVolts, that's the forward bias Voltage.

The #1 in reverse should be the same as without the leads connected (open circuit), different meters indicate this in different ways like "---"

With the original wiring the Voltage drop between the battery and the regulator reference point is about 0.6 Volts, When headlight relays are powered

directly from the battery you loose the benefit of the Voltage drop and so the battery gets under-charged

Adding a small diode in series with the black wire boosts the regulator output by about 0.6 Volts (any small silicon diode e.g. 1 amp will do)

 

Before you do that though, have you added a ground strap from the regulator case to engine, that often cures low regulation.

You will find a small black wire under one of the holding bolts, it's too small just add another short #12 from the other bolt to the engine.

 

Roy

Charging Circuit Problems.pdf

Sorry, I need to revise note 2 mentioning the normal voltage drop. Most bikes don't pass the headlight current through the start relay, just the headlight relay. On my 2001 V11 Sport it passes through both as I show.

[Cliff]

I just noticed having the same issue as well, after hooking up a permanent volt meter to my V11 Sport. Max voltage is 13.9 at higher RPM's, around 12.6 at idle.

I don't understand the problem. Those voltages are to be expected.

[docc]

I just noticed having the same issue as well, after hooking up a permanent volt meter to my V11 Sport. Max voltage is 13.9 at higher RPM's, around 12.6 at idle.

I don't understand the problem. Those voltages are to be expected.

 

Those voltages are certainly typical. And may sustain the battery for a reasonable period of time. Yet, AGM manufacturers (ie: Hawker Odyssey) specify 14.2 volts for charging, unlimited amperage.

 

Static voltage on an AGM is 12.84 vDC. Anything less is discharging.

[moto fugazzi]

I just noticed having the same issue as well, after hooking up a permanent volt meter to my V11 Sport. Max voltage is 13.9 at higher RPM's, around 12.6 at idle.

I don't understand the problem. Those voltages are to be expected.

 

My 2007 Griso (sold a while back) and 2009 V7 Classic both charged over 14V at higher RPM's (over 4K), and neither of them showed voltage of 12.6 at idle. After realizing the PO upgraded the wiring, he ended up bypassing the reference wire which was causing the regulator to put out less power. After installing the diode, my voltage now reads 14.5V at higher RPM's and 12.9V at idle-very comparable to the Griso and V7C readings. Why not optimize the charging system?

FWIW, I did clean the ground from the regulator that the PO added, and I actually added another ground to a different point on the frame (the existing ground was to the engine). I also went thru and cleaned ALL electrical contacts just to be sure before I added the diode.

My main concern was that the voltage would be below 12.5V (and keep dropping) when I turned on my aux. lights at cruising speed. After the diode was added, it's now 12.7V or slightly higher. If I left my aux lights on for more tha 15 minutes, voltage would drop below 12V, which is not a good thing. Sucks to go on a ride at night, and just watch your battery drain on the voltmeter. The voltmeter is hooked up to the battery via a Fuzeblock. Great product if you're adding extra electronics, which I have done.

Ken

[luhbo]

Ken,

your writeup doesn't make sense. Adding this diode can and will affect only the cut off voltage of your regulator. It cannot and so probably won't change the voltage at idle. Besides that it will never unleash any hidden powers of the alternator. This means, in case you see 12.5V at idle with headlamps and heated grips on, you could add whatever gizzmo the market or the internet offers, you would never see more than exactly the same voltage at the same rpm as without having spent the money and time for it.

Hubert

[luhbo]

 

... Those voltages are certainly typical. And may sustain the battery for a reasonable period of time. Yet, AGM manufacturers (ie: Hawker Odyssey) specify 14.2 volts for charging, unlimited amperage.

 

Static voltage on an AGM is 12.84 vDC. Anything less is discharging.

 

Docc,

it's a difference whether you are charging a rather empty battery or whether you are just keeping a charged one charged. An empty one does need this high voltage to achieve some movement or kind of stirring caused by those typical gas bubbles known from every lead acid battery above a certain voltage.

No so with a more or less fully charged one. Voltages above 14V in this case just mean stress and I believe forced ageing for the cells.

I have mine running at 13.8 and I always see 12.6V at the poles the next morning. That's good. Using an expensive quality meter maybe would give me 12.846V, who know's

Hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

Actually it was me that told Ken to add a diode, it causes the regulator to boost the Voltage by 0.6 Volts at higher revs.

 

With the stock wiring there's a natural Voltage drop of over 0.5 Volt between battery and regulator reference (black wire) but when you add headlight relays powered directly from the battery this Volt drop is reduced to zero so the battery gets under charged.

You can easily verify this voltage drop, just turn the key on and measure between battery positive and the regulator black wire of the black/white pair (stock wired bike of course)

 

At low revs the Alternator output is less than the load so the regulator isn't regulating at all, just sending the total output of the alternator to the battery. But if the battery is charged to a higher Voltage at speed it will take longer to come down at idle.

 

This only applies to the bikes with Ducati Energia regulators.

[moto fugazzi]

Ken,

your writeup doesn't make sense. Adding this diode can and will affect only the cut off voltage of your regulator. It cannot and so probably won't change the voltage at idle. Besides that it will never unleash any hidden powers of the alternator. This means, in case you see 12.5V at idle with headlamps and heated grips on, you could add whatever gizzmo the market or the internet offers, you would never see more than exactly the same voltage at the same rpm as without having spent the money and time for it.

Hubert

Sorry if it doesn't make sense, but I'm just reporting my experiences with and without the diode installed. When I went for a ride Sunday night (no diode installed) and turned on my 35w Aux lights (70w total), I saw the voltage on my meter drain at a fairly fast rate. After about 15 minutes at 4k+RPM's, the meter was into the 11 volt range. That just shouldn't be possible with what the alternator puts out, as long as the system is functioning properly. A ride last night (diode installed) with the aux lights on had the voltage around 13.3-13.5V if I remember correctly.

I'm not trying to unleash any hidden power here, I'm just trying to get the charging system to do what it's supposed to do-charge the battery.

I had these same lights on my V7C that has a 280W alternator, and the battery never drained with those. I believe Roy is correct with his cause and solution to the low charging situation.

Ken

[luhbo]

Roy,

can you explain what's going on here? This little diode pushing the alternator to squeeze out enough current to rise the voltage from 11V to over 13.5V with all the X-Mas lighting in full bling?

Hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

Roy,

can you explain what's going on here? This little diode pushing the alternator to squeeze out enough current to rise the voltage from 11V to over 13.5V with all the X-Mas lighting in full bling?

Hubert

 

All the little diode is doing is compensating for the Voltage lost when the previous owner added headlight relays.

 

If you have a stock bike (without relays) with the key and headlight on if you measure from the battery positive to the black wire at the regulator you will find about 1/2 Volt. This is compensated for by the regulator being set at 13.8 Volts, the battery will charge to over 14 (engine running)

When you add after market headlight relays powered directly from the battery you loose the benefit of this 1/2 Volt drop so the battery only gets charged to 13.8.

 

The diode adds 0.6 Volts by making the regulator think the battery is 0.6 Volts lower.

 

I will add a sketch later