Throttle Positioning measure

[GuzziPet]

Howdy,

 

I refer to the throttle positioning topic. Can someone explain how to measure the throttle position? Tools needed, pics, exact description? Read you can measure at ECU, throttle positioning sensor...THX

[gstallons]

Before we can help , how much do you know ?

the v can be checked at either the ecu or tps. Are you having problems or tune-up related ?

[GuzziPet]

Before we can help , how much do you know ?

the v can be checked at either the ecu or tps. Are you having problems or tune-up related ?

No problem as far as I can tell, the Cafe Sport runs like a charm. I simply want to understand the TPS measure with a voltmeter and know where to measure it. Want to check the throttle positioning...bought my bike used with Power Commander, Ferraci race exhaust, open BMC air filter etc..and wonder if the bike has a special throttle set up. I love to work on my bikes...and simply want to know how it works.

 

Option1: I think the description talks about measuring the voltmeter reading by clipping / accessing the wires at the TPS (while the ignition is on). I refer to the following write up: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12204

 

Option 2: reading at the ECU...? but where and how and with what tool. I assume you would access the information with a special Engine Diagnose Reading tool at the electronic reading coupling, next to the ECU? (as described in the official shop manual?). Is there an alternative way at the ECU?

 

Any detail with picture appreciated.

[docc]

That is the most concise and refined thread on the topic. The wires can be probed at the TPS or "backprobed" on the ECU connector. This is much easier on the earlier V11s as the connector is on top of the ECU. Later bikes will require the ECU to be loosed to gain access to the connector for back probing. This method uses millivolts to set the TPS.

 

Using a reading device (AXONE) or computer software (like VDSTS) sets the TPS in "degrees opening." I'm thinking the later years' TPS can be calibrated with the software while earlier versions, like my 2000, the TPS must be physically moved.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes, you can also measure it at the ECU

 

This drawing shows measuring the resistance with the ECU unplugged

ECU Test Points.pdf

The purpose of this drawing is to test the items connected to the ECU, not the ECU itself.

 

If you want to measure the voltage take a sewing pin and drive it thru the wire going to pin 11

Measure Voltage between the pin and battery negative or another pin thru wire going to pin 22

The wire going to pin 1 is fixed at 5 Volts

 

Remember the plug will be a mirror image of the one I show because you will be looking at the back.

Note also, my colours are not as on the bike.

 

Hope this helps

Roy

[fotoguzzi]

you can download a service manual here.

http://thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_misc.htm#gtb_workshop_manuals___shop_manuals___service_manuals

 

"Using a reading device (AXONE) or computer software (like VDSTS) sets the TPS in "degrees opening." I'm thinking the later years' TPS can be calibrated with the software while earlier versions, like my 2000, the TPS must be physically moved."

 

on your Cafe Sport you do physically move the TPS in the housing but you can use the VSDT to read the setting, later models use the software to make the actual adjustment.

[gstallons]

Yes, you can also measure it at the ECU

 

This drawing shows measuring the resistance with the ECU unplugged

ECU Test Points.pdf

The purpose of this drawing is to test the items connected to the ECU, not the ECU itself.

 

If you want to measure the voltage take a sewing pin and drive it thru the wire going to pin 11

Measure Voltage between the pin and battery negative or another pin thru wire going to pin 22

The wire going to pin 1 is fixed at 5 Volts

 

Remember the plug will be a mirror image of the one I show because you will be looking at the back.

Note also, my colours are not as on the bike.

 

Hope this helps

Roy

 

Kiwi, You are the MAN.

To whom it may concern; be very careful when probing at the connector. If your probe is too lage it can expand the terminal and not allow it to make a good connection causing you LOTS of trouble. I prefer to use the pin type probes and go in at the wire side of the connector. If I remember correctly, you will want about .450v with Key On Engine Off at the b terminal of the tps.

[GuzziPet]

Yes, you can also measure it at the ECU

 

This drawing shows measuring the resistance with the ECU unplugged

ECU Test Points.pdf

The purpose of this drawing is to test the items connected to the ECU, not the ECU itself.

 

If you want to measure the voltage take a sewing pin and drive it thru the wire going to pin 11

Measure Voltage between the pin and battery negative or another pin thru wire going to pin 22

The wire going to pin 1 is fixed at 5 Volts

 

Remember the plug will be a mirror image of the one I show because you will be looking at the back.

Note also, my colours are not as on the bike.

 

Hope this helps

Roy

 

Kiwi, You are the MAN.

To whom it may concern; be very careful when probing at the connector. If your probe is too lage it can expand the terminal and not allow it to make a good connection causing you LOTS of trouble. I prefer to use the pin type probes and go in at the wire side of the connector. If I remember correctly, you will want about .450v with Key On Engine Off at the b terminal of the tps.

 

 

All,

 

Thanks for your help and information provided. Still a stunning topic:

I refer to a Moto Guzzi Training Video "Throttle adjustment for V11" (Someone has posted a link to these). I watched the video and compared with the Shop Manual (V11 update). This manual is about all the updates the V11 series received, like suspension, steering etc..so here are the quotes:

 

Section goes to plug in and boot up the Axone 2000...(I do not have this system, only voltmeter)

1. Disengage rod 'I' on throttle body right sides ('I' = rode connecting the throttle bodies

2. Using the special throttle adjusting grub screw "L" (hidden way back on the right throttle body, adjust TPS sensor at 3.8 deg (+/- 0.1deg), value read on Axone 2000. The video stats a note: potentiometer reading 550mV (+/- 5mV)...

3. Connect rod 'I' on throttle body on right side.

4. Fully close the by pass screws "M" on both sides

5. Bring grub screw on left throttle body fully home, make sure not to change throttle opening angle. (Note: I interpreted this as screw the grub screw in until it barely touches the throttle lever (visual measured with thin sheet of paper and then a slight turn to barely touch the throttle lever)

6. Warm up engine to (50 deg C, measured by Axone 2000), I simply warmed up the engine)

7. Connected a vacuum meter, (shown in manual and video). same I use for my BMW R 1150R

8. Check at 2000-3000 rpm, by adjusting the white plastic nut under left Throttle body that left and right cylinder show same reading (equal vacuum).

9. Gradually open both by-pass screws so as to reach an idling speed 1,100 (+/- 50 rpm). I read the rpm on my rpm meter on cockpit.

 

That was basically it. I played with the vacuum screws to fine tune (sound and throttle response feel)until it ran smoothly...

 

Final comment: I'm still puzzled by the mentioned voltage reading of 150 mV by a 'DISCONNECTED' TPS (3 wire connecting plug removed from TPS, but ignition key on). Since the picture in the shop manual shows the TPS connector unplugged how can you read any voltage on it???? The step is also at the end of the entire chapter. The shop manual also does not give a mV reading that relates to the throttle 3.8 deg Axone 2000 reading, but the VIDEO does..any feedback and comments welcome. Happy riding!

[luhbo]

 

...

Final comment: I'm still puzzled by the mentioned voltage reading of 150 mV by a 'DISCONNECTED' TPS (3 wire connecting plug removed from TPS, but ignition key on). Since the picture in the shop manual shows the TPS connector unplugged how can you read any voltage on it???? ....

 

That's wrong. They mean 'mechanicaly disconnected', means flaps completely closed, zero degrees. Would be interesting to know what butcher made these photos then

 

Hubert

[68C]

I stripped back the insulation and soldered two wires onto the loom from the TPS near the ECU, then covered with self amalgamating tape. I now have a two pin socket permanently fitted so easy to check. Might be overkill though as the setting should'nt change once fitted. I am now trying to set up the MyEcu I just built so has come in handy.

[moto fugazzi]

How do I remove the "I" rod? I tried lifting up on the ball joint on the right side with no luck. Does it need to be pried off with a screwdriver? I really don't want to break it.

Also, on my 2001 V11 Sport, does anyone know if the TPS had to be manually reset, or can my VDSTS electronically reset the TPS?

 

I've read so many methods on resetting TPS, that I'm even more confused on which is the right way to do it with the VDSTS.

 

Ken

[docc]

How do I remove the "I" rod? I tried lifting up on the ball joint on the right side with no luck. Does it need to be pried off with a screwdriver? I really don't want to break it.

Also, on my 2001 V11 Sport, does anyone know if the TPS had to be manually reset, or can my VDSTS electronically reset the TPS?

 

I've read so many methods on resetting TPS, that I'm even more confused on which is the right way to do it with the VDSTS.

 

Ken

 

Yes, you can snick the plastic cup off with prying (maybe a drop of lubricant first).

 

The early TPS is entirely manual. No electronic setting.

[Tom M]

How do I remove the "I" rod? I tried lifting up on the ball joint on the right side with no luck. Does it need to be pried off with a screwdriver? I really don't want to break it.

Also, on my 2001 V11 Sport, does anyone know if the TPS had to be manually reset, or can my VDSTS electronically reset the TPS?

 

I've read so many methods on resetting TPS, that I'm even more confused on which is the right way to do it with the VDSTS.

 

Ken

Hi Ken,

Here's how I use VDST to set my TPS as part of a tuneup. I came up with this procedure after reading lots of threads here and elsewhere. If someone else is doing it differently I hope they chime in...

 

1. Set valve lash to .006" intake/.008 exhaust

2. Set air bleeds to 1 full turn open

3. Hook up VDST then warm the engine up.

4. Sync throttle bodies at about 1800rpm with white knob.

5. Make sure the high idle lever is "off" and it's cam isn't touching the throttle plate.

6. With the right side idle stop backed off set the idle to 1100rpm using only the left side idle stop screw.

7. Check throttle angle at idle with VDST. It should read 3.6 degrees +/- .2. If not loosen TPS screws and manually adjust it within spec. That can be done with engine off/key on.

8. Start engine and warm it up if needed then verify idle is about 1100rpm and throttle angle is about 3.6 degrees.

9. Verify that idle trim is set to 0.

10. With engine off open the throttle all the way and verify that throttle angle is about 84 degrees.

 

Hope this helps,

Tom

[moto fugazzi]

Here's how I use VDST to set my TPS as part of a tuneup. I came up with this procedure after reading lots of threads here and elsewhere. If someone else is doing it differently I hope they chime in...

 

1. Set valve lash to .006" intake/.008 exhaust

2. Set air bleeds to 1 full turn open

3. Hook up VDST then warm the engine up.

4. Sync throttle bodies at about 1800rpm with white knob.

5. Make sure the high idle lever is "off" and it's cam isn't touching the throttle plate.

6. With the right side idle stop backed off set the idle to 1100rpm using only the left side idle stop screw.

7. Check throttle angle at idle with VDST. It should read 3.6 degrees +/- .2. If not loosen TPS screws and manually adjust it within spec. That can be done with engine off/key on.

8. Start engine and warm it up if needed then verify idle is about 1100rpm and throttle angle is about 3.6 degrees.

9. Verify that idle trim is set to 0.

10. With engine off open the throttle all the way and verify that throttle angle is about 84 degrees.

 

Hope this helps,

Tom

Thanks!

The only question I have is: how do I verify the idle trim is set at zero? Not sure how to do that.

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

I stripped back the insulation and soldered two wires onto the loom from the TPS near the ECU, then covered with self amalgamating tape. I now have a two pin socket permanently fitted so easy to check. Might be overkill though as the setting should'nt change once fitted. I am now trying to set up the MyEcu I just built so has come in handy.

 

That's a good idea, it's not so easy to probe the wires with a pin.

68C is referring to the wires that go to pin 22 and pin 11 of the ECU connector

 

Do you have your MyECU running yet?

 

BTW if you need to probe the ECU socket the pins are the same size as used in the earlier computer cables

you can purchase them at Radio shack or simply tear apart an old computer cable