V11 Le Mans Leaks Oil, Relays Arc, Bought It Anyway

[Bob Hartman]

Forgive a Guzzi newbie's questions:

 

Found a red/grey '02 V11 Le Mans for sale, 14K miles. Two issues: 1) Went for a test ride, came back to find oil dripping and smoking on the exhaust crossover. 2) Electric arcing/snapping noise from the relay region with engine off (!).

 

Oil doesn't leak with engine off; drip on the drain plug and one beneath the engine toward the right side. This does not look new, lots of oil stain on the crossover. Owner says he hadn't noticed this (had put 8K miles on it in seven years). Said it was always had it serviced at the (now defunct) dealer. Where do we think that leak is coming from?

 

I've read the relays are suspect. But why are there a loud, intermittent electric 'snap' sounds coming from the relay area - or at least I thing that's where - with the ignition off?

 

Yes, I bought the bike for near the KBB trade-in value because it's otherwise great; strong, quiet, fine suspension, brakes and cosmetics.

 

I've read about oil leaks and relays on these bikes but am still not clear on tracing symptoms. All advice much appreciated!

 

Bob

[Tom M]

Welcome to the forum and congrat's on your LeMans Bob.

 

Are your electrical snapping noises occurring just as you turn the key on? If so I'd take a look at the fuel pump relay. If you leave the key on and cycle the kill switch it should energize the FP relay each time. It should click but not snap. Many here replace all of the stock relays with a set from dpguzzi.com ar motratech since the stock ones can be problematic. I'd also check the battery connections to make sure that they're clean, tight, and the + terminal isn't shorting to something.

 

Oil leak could be the oil pan gasket, oil return hose connection at the back of the pan, leaky oil vent hose on the top of the engine, or something else. Check to see if the oil pan screws, drain plug, and oil return hose are tight then clean it up, warm it up and look for the leak.

[Baldini]

Is oil leak gearbox or engine oil?

 

Gearbox oil weep onto exhaust collector box was very common. Mine did it - I never figured where it was weeping from exactly. As i recall it stopped when I changed gbox oil to Redline Shockproof Heavy.

Check all gbox cover screws are tight. Another possibility is the gearbox sideplate which doesn't have a gasket - I had mine on & off several times to fix pawl spring. Use a good quality sealant (I used Wurth Orange Flange Sealant which works v well).

 

If it's engine oil could be loads of things. As Tom says, look round sump, feeds & breathers. They commonly weep from timing cover joint - check screws are tight, if so then it's a new gasket. Has it ever been dropped? Check around front engine mounts. Try cleaning it & dusting suspect areas with talc or similar then running it to try track source.

 

Good luck.

 

KB

[Bob Hartman]

Many thanks, Tom and KB, for your sane advice, appreciate the replies.

 

Good questions, too; should have clarified: Appears to be engine oil. Seller wondered out loud if synthetic oil seeps through seals and gaskets. I let that go. I hadn't thought of breather hose issues - which supports the symptom of no leak at rest. When I get it home I'll clean it all beneath, talc it up and hope for a clear diagnosis.

 

The bike had been sitting and was charged up before my two test rides, which may have disturbed the battery connections. The snapping sound, about every 7 - 15 seconds, was apparent after both short runs. The ignition was off. The sounds seemed to be coming from the relay area but I'll certainly check around the battery. Darndest thing.

 

Otherwise, it ran and handled beautifully! I hope to collect the bike one evening this week. I'll be back to report!

 

Cheers,

Bob

[Chuck]

The snapping sound, about every 7 - 15 seconds, was apparent after both short runs. The ignition was off. The sounds seemed to be coming from the relay area but I'll certainly check around the battery. Darndest thing.

Now I've heard of some strange stuff in my days, but Never have heard of that one..

[felix42o]

Many thanks, Tom and KB, for your sane advice, appreciate the replies.

 

Good questions, too; should have clarified: Appears to be engine oil. Seller wondered out loud if synthetic oil seeps through seals and gaskets. I let that go. I hadn't thought of breather hose issues - which supports the symptom of no leak at rest. When I get it home I'll clean it all beneath, talc it up and hope for a clear diagnosis.

 

The bike had been sitting and was charged up before my two test rides, which may have disturbed the battery connections. The snapping sound, about every 7 - 15 seconds, was apparent after both short runs. The ignition was off. The sounds seemed to be coming from the relay area but I'll certainly check around the battery. Darndest thing.

 

Otherwise, it ran and handled beautifully! I hope to collect the bike one evening this week. I'll be back to report!

 

Cheers,

Bob

 

The stock breather hose fails pretty quickly. It's not very high quality rubber, so I'd look there. Then do a forum search for replacement options, as there is/was an automotive one that had close to the right bends and was cheaper than the MG one. I just used a length of hose I had in the garage, and it works fine. That was 5 years ago. These bikes tend to "find" their own happy oil level, too, so if it's overfilled it will find a way out.

[AndyH]

Appears to be engine oil.

Smell of the oil should tell you - I have the same issue with my gearbox dripping on my cross-over and smoking. Seems to be coming from the plug itself and adding a thin layer of sealant to the crush washer, which has always worked for me in the past, has made not the slighted difference. There also seems to be some engine oil misting getting through to the underside of the 'box too however, I've ruled out the engine sump or hose connections - both are dry. This seems to be coming from the forward edge of the gearbox. No clutch slip though so I'll leave be for the moment and watch.

The snapping sound, about every 7 - 15 seconds, was apparent after both short runs. The ignition was off.

Check out Kiwi-Roy's Test Point Layout diagram for a comprehensive guide. I'm still wrestling with Relay problems at the moment and replacement may not be the only bit of tinkering needed: sort out connections too because poor connections seem to be responsible for apparently illogical electrical behaviour.

AndyH

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hi Bob,

Sounds like you got a nice bike there, barely run in for one of these motors.

I have no idea what the snapping sound could be, if it's quite repeatable perhaps some sort of short circuit in the flasher circuit, the flasher bi-metal would get super hot and open then take a while to cool, I'm only guessing though.

Pull the flasher relay then each fuse one by one until it stops.

The closest drawing Carl has shows the flasher is powered through the ignition switch but the PO may have done some re-wiring.

Could that be the reason he had it on charge?

[pasotibbs]

Just a thought but if the noise is regular it could be an alarm in "service" mode with a damaged sounder or failing internal battery if the power has been disconnected ?

[fotoguzzi]

'02's know for breaking shift return spring.. I put one under my seat along w/a printout of how to fix it.. no problems then! get yours from mgcycle.com

 

got pics?

[Bob Hartman]

Thanks to all for great replies, especially to Roy who's got some impressive guides and guidance.

 

I collect the bike from the seller tonight so photos will follow soon. The seller spoke about the bike in the present tense over the phone but the records reveal minimal use in the last four years. So along with the oil leak and errant electrons mysteries needing sorting, it'll need replacement tires, fluids, pads, probably battery and possibly fork seals before much else happens.

 

Watch this space for engine oil and tire recommendation threads!!

 

Looking forward,

 

Bob

[Bob Hartman]

'02's know for breaking shift return spring.. I put one under my seat along w/a printout of how to fix it.. no problems then! get yours from mgcycle.com

 

got pics?

Went looking for the breather hose today after taking some snaps. https://picasaweb.google.com/113055271327028956964/V11LeMans

 

Is this a newbie hazing thing? Breather hose? Do you know where they put it?! Not to be dramatic but, oh dear.

 

Do we know how many red/grey V11 Le Mans were produced?

 

Bob

[AndyH]

'02's know for breaking shift return spring.. I put one under my seat along w/a printout of how to fix it.. no problems then! get yours from mgcycle.com

 

got pics?

Went looking for the breather hose today after taking some snaps. https://picasaweb.google.com/113055271327028956964/V11LeMans

 

Is this a newbie hazing thing? Breather hose? Do you know where they put it?! Not to be dramatic but, oh dear.

 

Do we know how many red/grey V11 Le Mans were produced?

 

Bob

Nice pics, no wonder you wanted to buy it.

Now the hard work begins by the sound of it... but it'll be worth it!! You'll probably become more familiar with your bike than any other bike you've had for years - take that as a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view!

 

I think the breather hose you're referring to is the one that goes up into the frame spine from the top of the crank case - well hidden under the tank.

[felix42o]

That's a nice looking bike! Yeah, sorry about confusing you on the breather hose...it's at the top of the engine case, just behind the cylinders, and goes up into the frame. It's under the tank and a little difficult to see, but if that's where the leak is it'll probably be cracked and ugly looking where the hose clamp holds it to the case of the motor.

[Bob Hartman]

Thanks Andy and Felix,

 

Sorry, I wasn't clear; a little frustrated rhetoric. I've been working on getting at the blasted breather hose. I just couldn't believe that's where they put it. Looks like they borrowed the Ducati engine accessory design committee for this one.

 

The hose looks fine at the bottom but now, this deep in, I'll follow through and replace it. The air cleaner looks brand new so that can stay. Yes, the best part of the process has been learning - and cleaning - everything in the middle of the bike. Foaming cleaning spray has been the way to go; wish I'd found it years ago.

 

Was going to fill up with 20w-50 but given the current blast furnace weather I may go for 10w-60. Didn't I read there was a bulletin out for V11's recommending the latter?

 

New relays arrived today from Dan. I've tightened the relay block spade connectors from above and will have a snoop around the bottom for ropey grounds or shorts.

 

Wish I had the time to speed up the process. I'm looking forward to getting this bike out for a good run!

 

Thanks, Bob