Integral brakes ?

[v11F]

Hi all,

 

A long time ago (!), I had a T3 and then a Le Mans mk1 (why did I sell it ... ???) with integral braking ... arriving in a curve, a touch on the pedal and the bike was glued to the road at both ends, very stable, and the right hand stayed free to smooooothly roll off (on) the throttle.

 

This is the point I miss the most on the modern bikes. If you're coming into the curve too fast (it happens), there's always a difficult moment when you realise it, and go for the brakes and - in doing so for the front brake - simultaneously have 2 problems:

 

- rolling off the throttle too sharply

- grabbing the front brake too hard

 

all of which results in undue fork-plunging and pressure on the front tyre-patch

 

It seemed better, around 30 years ago !!!

 

My dealer says it should be possible to adapt the (non-ABS) brakes to make them 'integral' - has anyone tried ? Any experience ?

 

Thanks & good riding ...

[Baldini]

I had similar a LM11 & a T3, & loved the linked brakes too - work just as you say. I'm sure it can be done to link a V11 but I delinked Tonti to fit with habit of riding V11.

Thre is a thread here, but it doesn't tell you much, mailnly not to do it & where Kentucky is: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17486&st=0

 

Maybe a more experience with modern brakes would help feel? Practice braking front hard til you get a feel for limits & action? Linked system is/was v good, but then so are modern brakes on V11. You could also try swapping pads, some are more grabby than others.

 

KB

[v11F]

Just a detail - my bike is now a 1200 Sport, without ABS ...

[v11F]

Hello Baldini,

 

Brakes are fine ... just do miss (on a Guzzi) the integrals ... and don't understand why they gave them up, even if Honda & BM have caught up (but these aren't Guzzi's are they !!!)

 

Good riding

[68C]

Baldini kindly mentioned the thread I stated recently, I miss the linked system as well.

 

I had a new 1977 Yamaha XS750, which was an excellent bike for it's day - shaft drive, three cycls, three discs etc. I saw the linked braking on a Guzzi and converted my Yamaha to the same system, it worked really well. My friend with the Guzzi demonstrated the safety of the system by braking on a gravel surface and pointing out that the rear wheel had locked first, I tried the same with my modified Yamaha with similar results. My local dealer was finishing as a Guzzi dealer in favour of Yamaha so I managed to get a good deal for the year old Yamaha and bought the last Guzzi T3 they had in the shop at a great price.

 

I intend to convert my V11, immediate problems seem to be way the brake light switch holds the hose to the rear master cylinder, there wont be enough thread to connect the second hose. Using a longer standard brake hose bolt would mean no rear brake switch. May have to fit a mechanical switch. I will post when I get it done.

[Baldini]

...I intend to convert my V11, immediate problems seem to be way the brake light switch holds the hose to the rear master cylinder, there wont be enough thread to connect the second hose. Using a longer standard brake hose bolt would mean no rear brake switch. May have to fit a mechanical switch. I will post when I get it done.

 

I don't know much about it & apologies if I misunderstand, but if you simply plumb the rear m/c up to one front + rear disc, & leave single front disc on normal front m/c, won't your m/c:piston ratios will be all wrong?

KB

[68C]

I agree with that, ideally the master cylinders would be changed as well, I mentioned the Yamaha to show a simple re-layout of the pipes did work in practise.

 

One could get really clever, fit a front master cylinder for a single caliper set up and add a second master cylinder to be mechanically connected to the rear brake pedal - hey, with clever linkage we could even have it adjustable to alter the bias as they do with some racing cars.

 

Perhaps the original rear master cylinder could drive a slave piston to operate this linkage so it could be tucked away somewhere and so keep it looking standard. A roll yaw rate gyro from a model helicopter could sense lean and adjust the brake input via a stepper motor - and reduce throttle a tad. Pressure sensers could drive a variable intensity rear light.......and......er.........uh, sorry.

[gstallons]

...I intend to convert my V11, immediate problems seem to be way the brake light switch holds the hose to the rear master cylinder, there wont be enough thread to connect the second hose. Using a longer standard brake hose bolt would mean no rear brake switch. May have to fit a mechanical switch. I will post when I get it done.

 

I don't know much about it & apologies if I misunderstand, but if you simply plumb the rear m/c up to one front + rear disc, & leave single front disc on normal front m/c, won't your m/c:piston ratios will be all wrong?

KB

 

So ? Don't let that trivial stuff get in the way of an idea ! I guess you could hook up the integral brake to the front brake lever and the foot brake lever to the single front brake caliper.

[Baldini]

I have enough problems remembering which way's up in the mornings never mind which lever me brake's are on today. Guess you can do anything if you put your mind to it, but me - I work on the KISS principle.

 

KB

[gstallons]

That is why I was making it as silly as possible........