V11 RM will not go

[cash1000]

Bike died while I was on a ride today. First noticed there was a problem when taco stopped working. Thought ok I can live with out that so kept riding. Then I noticed indicators were not working. At this point I decided to head for home. Bike was still running ok. Got to within 10km of home and bike started missing. A couple of hundred meters later completely died. Battery so flat wouldn't even try to turn over. Same thing happened a couple of years ago it turned out to be a faulty cut out switch on side stand. Local MG dealer couldn't trace fault so they took it to an auto electricial who traced fault to the switch. They by passed the switch so its not the same fault again. Think I will be taking bike back to him. Rang my wife who got trailer and picked me and bike up. At least it wasn't far from home.

[Admin Jaap]

Sounds like a relais problem. Very common. Try switching the relais around.

[Bob Hartman]

Also reminds me of what happens when the reg/rec gives up the ghost.

[fotoguzzi]

start with a load test to battery, sounds like it went dead.

[guzzimeister]

start with a load test to battery, sounds like it went dead.

 

Hi

 

these are the classic signs of a regulator failure. The tacho conveniently operates OK down to about 8 volts, where upon it dies and shows zero. The ECU can work down to about 7 volts and then it too dies. That's why you see a tacho fault and then you have about 30 miles before the bike will stop dead.

 

The regulator is the finned thing fitted just under the headstock. They fail on V11s because they are very poorly earthed - more to come. To check whether your reg is working, charge the battery or jump (do not bump!)start the bike. Put a voltmeter over the terminals of the bike. At idle, you will see between 12 and 13.5 volts. Then rev with bike up to about 2000 rpm. You should then see around about 14 volts, or at least an increase in voltage from idle. If it doesn't, the reg is probably dead, and needs to be changed. You can do the same check at dusk, and use the headlight to tell if the reg works. As you rev up, if the reg works the light will brighten slightly.

 

If you get an increase in voltage, but the bike battery seems flat and doesn't want to charge, it's possible that the battery has failed on one cell. Sealed batteries are quite reliable but can fail very quickly - I had one collapse in 30 miles.

 

Please don't assume that because you don't see the charge light coming on, the battery is being charged. All it means is that the battery voltage is being matched by the reg output. If it does come on, it definitely means there is no charge function. Also putting a voltmeter across a battery with no load on tells you nothing. It needs to be cranking the engine to provide any info - it should fall to about 8 volts doing this, if you see 6 volts, take it to an auto battery specialist and get them to do a "drop test" on it - standard test for which they should charge you nothing. They will tell you if your battery needs changing.... Just as a point of interest, had mine checked on Saturday for another reason, and its peak current capability was 670 Amps which is why you should disconnect the battery if you are fiddling electrically......

 

When you fit your new reg, it is worth running a separate earth cable from the case of the reg direct to the negative post of the battery, Also clean up any earthing contact faces and smear with petroleim jelly to stop corrosion. The standard reg earth on the V11 is very poor - I fitted a new reg to mine, and took a wire from the battery negative to the reg case. Incredibly I was able to get a small spark between the bare wire and the case - when I measured it there was a voltage difference of about 4 volts. At that point, I then fitted the separate earth. As well as preserving the reg by not making it work so hard, it stops your battery from being routinely charged at too high a voltage - the reg looks for a 12v difference beteen its earth and its output to regulate itself. If the earth is poor as per my example it can be putting out 15 or 16 volts - not good.

 

Regs are generic items and available on ebay or a good dealer for about £60.

 

Hope it all helps.

 

Guzz

[Bob Hartman]

Also reminds me of what happens when the reg/rec gives up the ghost.

 

Agree with Guzzimeister on the grounding issue (and not just on Guzzis) and on not having to buy a 'list' replacement (GU37703805 part no., by the way). I've had very good luck with Electrex items but there are others, new and used, to be found.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I have a different interpretation of the symptoms, I'm not saying it's the correct one.

 

Headlight relay dropped out for some reason, a blown fuse perhaps

This immediately takes out the tacho and since the regulator is fed from the same point the bike stops charging (in daylight you wouldn't notice the headlights off)

The charge lamp won't turn on because the regulator without 12V cannot turn it on

 

After a while there is not enough Voltage to run the flashers or it's also possible they are fed from the same fuse that took out the headlight relay

 

A short while later the battery is completely flat and the engine dies.

 

So I would start looking for why the headlight relay dropped out.

Perhaps start by seeing if the flashers work with a charged battery.

Check the regulator is getting 12 Volts on the black wire (black/white pair) to chassis with key on.

 

BTW, there's no connection between the fault you had two years back and this one.

 

Roy

[AndyH]

Very similar symptoms to those above happened to me recently - not a single blown fuse either. Could it be that the gradual drop in circuit voltage causes the headlamp relay and then the blinker to drop out before the other bits like the ECU finally cut out?

 

One other symptom (don't know if you've seen this) was the charge voltage across the battery terminals looked OK at first but started dropping from OK levels (13.85 - 14V) to ~12V within about 5 mins of starting and so not charging. The whole thing was baffling enough for me to call off a planned bike tour round Scotland and go by car instead.

 

I too have now fitted an Electrex 451 (needs slightly longer screws than the standard Ducati reg): I've also run fat (27 amp) Earth and Positive wires directly back to the battery (via a maxi blade 30 amp fuse) as suggested in the Electrex instructions and several posts on this forum. The Electrex doesn't have the equivalent of the standard wire that polls the circuit load, so this connection on the loom lies idle.

 

This arrangement seems to be working OK so far with a couple of quirks:

1. It takes several long seconds for the charge light to go off after starting (which at first made me think it wasn't working at all).

2. at idle, when warm, the charge light shows when the headlamp is on but not when it's off.

 

As I don't spend too much time at idle with the headlamp on I'm not overly concerned about the second issue, but when trickling through tight queues on the M25 round London I'd rather have some daytime running lights (am thinking of high output LED fitments to aid my survival).

 

I also obtained a good second-hand alternator stator and fitted that in a 'belt and braces' approach to see if it changes things but have seen absolutely no difference. I think these are just 'features' of this make of reg so I'll try and live with them unless further problems manifest.

 

BTW I also use an Oxford Maximiser battery maintenance device which reports that my battery is strong and holding charge well, so I use it to keep the battery in good form. Given the expense of replacing these batteries it seems well worth the £60.

 

AndyH

[cash1000]

Thanks for the advice. Ending up taking bike to Emoto, Guzzi dealer in Christchurch. They found that fault was a loose connection in wiring loom under the tank.

Bike going fine now.