Glowing Headers

[moto fugazzi]

I had a reflash done on my ECU by a reputable guy (not going to mention his name yet). My V11 runs great now (no pinging, etc), except I noticed the headers glow red after a few miles of riding. It's not very bright, but I did notice it at night (outside temp was 65f).

The reflash guy told me this is normal on Guzzi's with single wall headers. I never noticed it on the bike before the reflash, and my V7 Classic doesn't have this issue either (I think it's a single wall pipe).

 

Anybody notice their headers glowing at night? Not sure if this is normal, and I'm kind of afraid to ride it right now in case it is running too hot.

Ken

[nuevototem]

Hi, I have noticed it in my bike when it was stock.

 

I think u should not worry...

 

Best regards

[docc]

And how blue are they cold? Both the same blue?

 

I'm thinking way lean and ungood - never seen my headers like that (83,000 miles).

[moto fugazzi]

And how blue are they cold? Both the same blue?

 

I'm thinking way lean and ungood - never seen my headers like that (83,000 miles).

 

I just polished the headers before I ran the bike so that I could monitor the headers. They're mostly gold right now, and starting to get a little blue. Left side has a tiny bit more blue. I only did 30 miles tonight due to the rain all day. The plugs are a light grey with maybe a touch of white (but I'd say mostly grey).

The bike runs damn good right now (except that I have the idle a little low), and there's no popping on decel. Doesn't appear to be any exhaust leaks either as far as I can tell. When I had the headers off, I noticed there weren't any gaskets between the header and the cylinder head-is that normal?

Ken

[luhbo]

The headers do glow under certain conditions. That's nothing special. If the bike now is running as you expected it to run when you bought it then why don't you go out for doing what you spent your money for?

The gaskets often are a bit hard to identify. I'm sure they're there.

The 'how blue' approach is standard here. You better stick it.

 

Hubert

[Bob Hartman]

Grey/white plugs and, although some say it happens, glowing headers sound like it's too lean to me.

 

I can't see how red they get from here, mind.

 

My radar pings whenever I hear "They all do that, sir." Has fuel consumption changed much?

[moto fugazzi]

Grey/white plugs and, although some say it happens, glowing headers sound like it's too lean to me.

 

I can't see how red they get from here, mind.

 

My radar pings whenever I hear "They all do that, sir." Has fuel consumption changed much?

 

The red glow is faint so far-noticeable only at night, and when not directly under street lights. Temps were about 65f last night.

Not sure about fuel consumption yet, as there's only 30 miles on the reflashed ECU.

I do have one of those oil thermometer dipsticks from MG Cycle. Oil temp was 92 Celsius when I parked the bike after the ride. Not sure what the danger zone is for oil.

Ken

[docc]

That's under 200F. I wouldn't think it would cause trouble until well over 250F (125C or so).

[luhbo]

Answering directly to your last post I still wouldn't worry. I have a Quat-D installed with rather thin and light headers, and they tend to glow nearly as bright as cigarette tips, if I want them to. It has very little to do with lean or rich conditions (your's is running very fine as I could read). Headers start to glow when fuel still burning enters the exhaust, something typically happening at idle or more generally at RPMs not matching what the cam, what the whole system was designed for. At idle and low speeds the missing/insufficient cooling adds its part, too.

About oil temperature: I'd become nervous at 100°C. Keep in mind that this measuring device never will show the oil's temperature, it will only show it's own one. From the tip down in the sump up to the gauge it's quite some distance and you don't know how much heat is lost on its way up there or how accurate this gauge is at all. Besides that the sump is the coolest place in the whole engine. The temperatures above the heads, below the pistons, in the big ends are higher, probably much higher. So some reserve won't hurt.

 

Answering indirectly to your first question: why don't you just take the bike back to the dealer/mechanic and say: "Well, it runs really fine now, but I asked a internet forum and they told me your work is probably not that good for my engine, want to say: your work is crap!" This could make a good first scene for a interesting short movie

 

Hubert

[Lucky Phil]

About oil temperature: I'd become nervous at 100°C.

Really.....I'd be concerned if the bulk oil temp was regularly "below" 100deg C. It needs to be around 100C to burn off water vapor,unburned fuel etc and keep oil dilution at a minimum.

As for the glowing headers as you describe...I wouldn't worry about it.Thin walled headers,dark night etc etc.My 1198s rear header also glow bright red at times even in the shed under lights.

Ciao

[luhbo]

...It needs to be around 100C to burn off water vapor,unburned fuel etc and keep oil dilution at a minimum...

 

Yes, good point. Mine was rather where to pick up the temperature, with what instruments and with what accuracy. Best solution probably is to rely on good quality oil and to skip any guessing devices. 'Was ich nicht weiß, macht mich nicht heiß'

 

Hubert

[moto fugazzi]

Thanks for all of the help.

Went for another 30 mile ride last night. The bike runs incredibly well! No pinging, no popping on decel (pulls strongly and cleanly at all RPM's). The headers still glow at RPM's over 3500 or so. The higher the RPM's the brighter they get. I just stayed a constant 55mph and varied gears every few minutes. I also noticed the dipstick temp was about 95C when I parked the bike, so at least the oil isn't overheating.

Headers are just staring to turn blue a very little bit, but I would have thought it would be worse by now.

Ken

[luhbo]

What you could do is to ask the one who did the remapping whether he changed the spark map. You could eventually ask him/suggest to download the spark map of a catalysed version. They have a bit less advance under load, I think, but remarkably more in the cruising region.

Best option of course is to keep the bike as it is now and make no further experiments. Have fun!

 

Hubert

[moto fugazzi]

What you could do is to ask the one who did the remapping whether he changed the spark map. You could eventually ask him/suggest to download the spark map of a catalysed version. They have a bit less advance under load, I think, but remarkably more in the cruising region.

Best option of course is to keep the bike as it is now and make no further experiments. Have fun!

 

Hubert

The spark map has been remapped. I think once I get the PCV and autotune installed, it should run perfectly. The bike runs really good with no pinging around 5k with hard acceleration, and no popping on decel. It's also much smoother at lower RPM around town, and pulls great from 3k rpm's on up.

As of now, my fuel light just came on at 140 miles on the tank of gas, which should probably be about 35mpg, which is about what I normally get. Keep in mind, I didn't do any hard riding on this tankfull-I took it easy to make sure evrything is good.

 

I also have other questions on the air bleed screws. Can you have them too far out that it does more harm than good? Or too far in? Mine are about 1/2 out from fully closed. When I open them up more (to about 1 full turn or so) the bike runs much smoother at idle. Maybe because the idle speed goes up? Not really sure.

How does the air bleed screw affect performance, or is it just for idle only?

Ken

[docc]

I think, yes,air screws= idle only. And I've always found my idle more stable at a full turn out (tried many different combinations.)

 

No doubt, the air bleed must affect synchronization as well ( why else would some procedures call for closing them to synch?). I think the full turn makes the whole system a little more forgiving of varied conditions ( like high ambient heat).

 

Looks like you're getting her nailed down!