Gottagetone Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Guess Ill post up if they are correct...ordered them.
Kiwi_Roy Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Buy all 5 pin relays, the only slot that requires 5 is the start relay but they work in all slots so you can move them around I guess Guzzi saved maybe 10c per relay when they used 4 Yes the Z2247-NDs from Digikey are Omrons, The last batch I bought were made in Italy, the Guzzi can hardly reject those. Keep the old relays they are good for projects like headlight relays, horn relays or just plain spares. BTW a bit further back about the temperature sensor, remember if you take the airbox off to fit pods you need to re-locate the sensor or it will get super hot sitting with the heat from the engine, I extended mine up to the headstock area where its in the breeze and doesn't sit there cooking if the bike is parked with a hot engine, that must mess the mixture up if you re-start and the sensor is measuring very hot air.
Gottagetone Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Cant thank you enough for your help Roy! I ordered three of the Omrons and two Panasonic relays. According to the guy at Digikey via the data sheets, they are the same and he agreed that the Tyco relays that are currently there are not the best. When I moved a 5 pin to that slot it ran worse so I figured either I have a problem with two relays or they were different. Swapping relays 4 and 5 made her run like a top but no headlight, no tach, and a couple of the service lights on the dash are inoperable. I believe thats relay 4 that is shot? Relay 5 seems to have a solid click when I turn the kay on but wanted to confirm so I don't throw away a working relay? Yep, Ill keep the others in a ziplock as an insurance policy. learned a lot on this one.
Kiwi_Roy Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 I guess I should have said the relays numbered from the front of the bike Relay 1 - Start - this must be a 5 pin as the normally closed contact 87A powers up the headlight relay either directly to terminal 30 or the relay coil, it turns off the headlight while the bike is cranking Relay 2 - Headlight - this powers the light of course but also the tacho, idiot lights and most important the Voltage regulator for charging Relay 3 - Side-stand/Neutral - must be energized unless you have the stand shorted out in which case it serves no purpose, (some models of Guzzi use the normally closed contact) Relay 4 - ECU - this turns the brain on Relay 5 - Injection - this powers up the injectors, pump, coils All the spine frame bikes I have seen have the relays in that order but Luigi might have swapped some around to make it interesting. If you look into the relay sockets you will see the un-used pins are empty The relays are a standard automotive product made by many manufacturers, and used in various vehicles, I have seen them in Jeeps for instance.
Gottagetone Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Looks like I spoke a bit too soon. Just took it for a little ride through the neighborhood and it happened again. Its much less frequent but it still happened. Ill wait for the new relays and see what happens...prolly clean the ignition switch in between just for good measure. When I swapped the relays around it must have fried something but no fuses are blown...weird. Makes me wonder if there is something in the circuit.
O2 V11 Posted November 21, 2015 Posted November 21, 2015 Years ago I used a liquid correction pen and wrote S L N E I on my relays from front to back. It was that long ago their meaning was lost to me but thanks to Roy and one of his usual super informative postings it all makes sense to me now. Gottagetone with all the prodding and poking changing relays have the connections at the bottom of the relay board been compromised in some way? The relays might be fine but the contacts acting up, just a thought. Rob
Gottagetone Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 Great thought, ill give it a look, thanks.
Welshguzzi Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 I'm reluctant to hijack this thread, but a comment above has aroused my suspicions: it's to do with positioning of the air temperature sensor. My Le Mans gets spitty and unfriendly when it's hot, and won't idle. Could this be related to the temp sensor? (Standard air box and tappets recently set) And my apologies for sneaking this in!
docc Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 I'm reluctant to hijack this thread, but a comment above has aroused my suspicions: it's to do with positioning of the air temperature sensor. My Le Mans gets spitty and unfriendly when it's hot, and won't idle. Could this be related to the temp sensor? (Standard air box and tappets recently set) And my apologies for sneaking this in! I'd be all about a fresh tune and jiggly valves. There are some polarized opinions about the [oil] head temperature sensor and how that suffers from high ambient temps. guzzzidiag?
Kiwi_Roy Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Welshguzzi, I'm sure the air temperature sensor sees abnormally hot temperature when parked with a hot engine but as soon as the bike starts to run the fresh air should cool the sensor down, check to see if it's still in the airbox where it should be. Its only if you do away with the airbox the sensor should be re-located. You can measure the sensors from the ECU connector. with a cold motor air and oil temperature will be roughly the same.
Gottagetone Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Thanks for the input about the sensor. I checked it and its good...unfortunately. Its still in my airbox and my box has been cut away to provide more airflow over the K&N filter by the PO. Its been cool here so I don't think its related to that. If it were summer time then I would be more suspicious. Roy is emailing me more suggestions and I am following up on them. I just pulled the relay block and all connections look good. New relays are on the way from Digikey. Im also going to pull the ignition and check / clean it. Been moving relays around so much that I now realize I should have white marked the tops of them at the start. I put the 5 pin back in slot 1 and now the headlight and dash lights work. New relays can't get here fast enough. Locally they are $18.50 each but through digikey they are about $4.60.
docc Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Having all 5-pin relays is the answer to moving them around and mistakenly putting a 4-pin in the front position. After moving or replacing relays and loosing (or rearranging) my labeling, I put the labels on the flat of the tail section beside the relay positions.
nobleswood Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 Gottagetone, Why did you get 3 Omsron & 2 Panasonic relays rather than all Omsron ? Oz V11, Is that Invercargill, N Z where Burt Munro was from ? Just watched 'The Fastest Indian' again. A great movie, one of my favorites.
JBBenson Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I carry a print of this under the seat, with the manual and registration. That way, I don't have to remember anything. My mind is full enough....
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