03 V11 runs like crap

[Stick]

I thought I would update on my progress or lack there of.  First of all, Kiwi-Roy has been amazing with the help.  I am no electrician and he has helped me with all kinds of info and diagrams.  

 

I changed out all of my relays thinking that one of them was bad, unfortunately that did not fix the problem.  We thought it might be a side stand switch but that does not appear to be the case.  Ive tested the 02 sensor in the airbox along with quite a few other electrical things.  

 

I stopped by a to see a friend that works at Harris Vincent Gallery, since they trust him to break down and rebuild high $ motorcycles and the fact the he is a certified Ducati tech I thought he might be able to help.  He seems to think that its a lean condition and that my Power Commander map may be the fix.  He said that the issue is well known on euro bikes at the 3k rpm range, Jap bikes the problem will show itself in the 4300k range.  Ive checked all the intake boots and they are in good shape.  

 

I took a couple of shots of the PCIII map and show them below, one at idle and one not.  I am not confident about adjusting the map and know that each map is set for the current bike specs.  My specs are shown at the bottom of the pics below.  Any thoughts on the map settings?

 

At idle:

 

2400RPMs:

 

I did try to pull the PCIII but it turns out that it being an 03 and PC not having a connection for that year model...the PO had it professionally installed so its hardwired and looks stock.  I also checked my fuse box as I was not getting any readings from fuse #8 and it turns out that there are no wires running to that fuse.  

 

Im thinking it might be time to take it to the dealership and have them check the throttle body sync and tappets.  If that all looks good then I may be headed to a PCIII specialist.

 

Where did this map come from?  It looks like you're going to be running leaner-than-stock in the 2250 and 2500 rpm areas.  Those  negative numbers reduce the fuel (from the OEM map).

 

Does anyone else have a PCIII map for a Lemans to compare with?  

 

Can you make a copy of the map?  I believe the PCIII will allow you to download the map, and save it on your computer.  There should be a port right on the PCIII.  You should be able to edit the map.  Maybe try 0's instead of the minus numbers.  If you changed all the numbers to zeros, that's called a "zero map", which is basically the OEM map that's in the ECU...

 

If you could save your map, you could always load it back into your PCIII

 

 

Stick

[GuzziMoto]

While there may be issues with the map, my take is that it was running great and then one day it started running like crap (possibly after sitting a month). I take that to mean that the map works well enough and is not the source of the issue. It could be the Power Commander as a whole, there have been at least a few people who have found their Power Commander suddenly became the problem. But as this one is hard wired in (stupid shit) it is hard to un-plug it and see if that is the issue. Who does that?

[Tom M]

It does seem very strange that someone would hard wire a Power Commander. 

 

Gottagetone, maybe you should take a harder look at the wiring.  I believe there should be a Y harness coming out of the PC with two connectors; one plugs into the ECU and the other plugs into the stock wiring harness.  The previous owner might have hidden the PC to harness connection well or maybe he wrapped it in tape?

[Gottagetone]

Thanks for all the help, especially the suggestion of using the rear wheel rather than pulling the timing cover and using a wrench.  I guess a straw works as well as anything for a cylinder gauge through the spark plug hole?

 

I rode the bike for about 150 miles the day before and it rarely sits for long between rides, Austin weather is great this time of year.  The connection is wrapped tightly as you can see below.  The PCIII connection is kinda big so I don't think its hiding in there.  I bought the bike out of the Portland area and have not changed anything but fluids, filters and tires since I bought it.  I did change out most of the lights to LEDs as shown in my tidy tail thread and run an HID to the headlight.  

 

The map was done by the PO and i will say that she screams.  Idle is always smooth and the torque is amazing, rolling it up to over 100 is too easy.  My wife pulled up next to me in her Range Rover with a BMW 4.4 in it on the toll road one day and thought she could hang....not.  I did save the map in the files, the system works well.  Download and run the software then start the bike and hook the PCIII to the laptop and boom...you see the numbers.  

 

After all of the electronic stuff I have looked at I am with Tom on this one, it has to be something mechanical so thats where I am headed today.  Valves first then if that doesnt work I think I will take it to the shop as I don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to balance the TBs without seeing it done first.

 

At the T one side goes to the diag plug and the other into the ECU.

 

[Gottagetone]

I did find this about balancing, is it really this easy?

[Tom M]

"At the T one side goes to the diag plug and the other into the ECU."

 

What diag plug?  If I flip the ECU over on my bike and trace the wire bundle that's plugged into it it leads to a Y or T where one leg goes to the power commander and the other plugs into the wiring harness.  Yours should be the same, but maybe it isn't.  If it is you can disconnect the PC and plug the harness directly into the ECU to bypass the PC.

 

Yes balancing the throttle bodies is that easy but I use the "Micha Method" and balance them at around 1800rpm.  Others may do it differently.

[Gottagetone]

I am a bafoon, hate when I do this....I just pulled the PCIII and will take it for a spin to see if its the problem...

 

Edit, the PCIII is not the problem.  Time to let it cool then work on the valves.  

[Stick]

Great!  So the PCIII is not hardwired?   That's great news.  No bufoon...just learning the ins and outs of your machine.  And it wasn't obvious until you lifted the ECU...

 

And a drinking straw is a great indicator to use for piston rise.  Nothing to scar the piston or the spark plug thread holes with!

[Gottagetone]

Well Crap!  I checked the valves and adjusted the intake on the left side, man thats a minor adjustment.  I also built a meter and balanced the TBs at 1700 RPMs.  When I throttle up it definitely pulls to the right side throttle body, not sure if this is normal or not?  

 

Anyway, I put it all back together...PCIII included, and the problem is still there.....ARGH!!!!  It may be time for a shop visit.

[Scud]

Don't give up yet - you're doing great. What valve clearances did you use?

 

I found my notes. Here are various clearances in inches:

 

Factory:  Intake .004, Exhaust .006

World Spec:  Intake .006, Exhaust .008

Raceco:  Intake .007, Exhaust .010

My Scura, after 600-mile break-in service by dealer:  Intake .008, Exhaust .010

 

It seems that the looser settings solve some of the hiccuping and stuttering problems. If you set them tighter, maybe try the World or Raceco settings.

 

Maybe also try balancing your throttle bodies at the RPM level at which you are having the most problems.

[Gottagetone]

Thanks Scud, I used .006 in and .008 out.  The right side was spot on and the exhaust on the left was perfect.  Im glad I gave the valve job a try, it was pretty easy especially using the rear wheel method rather than cranking over with a wrench.  

[Kiwi_Roy]

You need to balance at open throttle as well, the white knob does that. One or two inches out is ok. Just blip the throttle and adjust the knob so it doesn't drift. The air bleeds balance at idle.

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

[Zooter]

My TB's have screws set in where there should be spigots for vacuum hoses!

[Tom M]

Congrat's on getting your valve lash and TB balancing done.    Don't give up yet!  The next step is to check your throttle position sensor at idle.  It's pretty easy.  If it's a lot lower than 530mv then that could cause a lean mixture.

 

In case you didn't click on the Micha Method that I referenced above, here's what works for me:

Step one - Set your valves to world settings (.15mm/.006" intake, .2mm/.008" exhaust)
Step two - Set your air bleed screws to open 1 full turn
Step three - Synch throttle bodies at just off idle (around 1800 rpm)
Step four - Set idle to 1100 using left idle screw adjuster only
Step five - Set TPS to 3.6 degrees (530mV)
Step six - Ensure idle trim is set to zero. This requires an AXEONE dealer tool or either VDST or GuzziDiag software.

[Kiwi_Roy]

My TB's have screws set in where there should be spigots for vacuum hoses!

They are 6mm, get a pair of straight grease nipples and grind the tip off the threaded end, this will let the spring and ball pop out making a nice nipple for the balance hose.

Put the screws back when finished.