Reaction Rod

[gstallons]

This looks like the best way to go !

[docc]

So, would one lubricate urethane bushings? And, if so, with what, silicone grease?

[stewgnu]

So, would one lubricate urethane bushings? And, if so, with what, silicone grease?

Wouldn't it be the inserts that needed a squirt?

[stewgnu]

And if so- moly?

[gstallons]

These should be a push fit and take no lubrication .  The best part of the whole R&R procedure.

[GuzziMoto]

Urethane bushings are commonly greased. But I think you should only use Lithium grease to do so. There is plenty of info on this, feel free to look into it deeper than I did. But I do think a urethane bushing should not be installed dry.

[MartyNZ]

So, would one lubricate urethane bushings? And, if so, with what, silicone grease?

I believe that you should not lubricate these bushes.

In car & truck suspension, rubber and urethane joints are not lubricated. Generally suspension joints are tightened once at the normal load position, then suspension movement is allowed by flex of the bushes. A temporary rubber assembly lubricant can help get things in place, if needed, which then quickly dries out. Any lubricant is bad for an elastomer joint, as it allows the elastomer to rub on the metal pin or housing, and believe it or not, the metal wears (very quickly), not the elastomer.

Greases attract road grit, and some dry lubes attract moisture, assisting with joint wear. The advantage of tight rubber joints is they are immune to water and dust damage. Oil, age and sunlight are their only enemies.

I personally would continue with an unlubricated rubber bush, tightened when the suspension is at ride height.

Just as good would be ball rod ends (heim joints) which would last a long time if you could keep them clean & greased.

[GuzziMoto]

 

So, would one lubricate urethane bushings? And, if so, with what, silicone grease?

I believe that you should not lubricate these bushes.

In car & truck suspension, rubber and urethane joints are not lubricated. Generally suspension joints are tightened once at the normal load position, then suspension movement is allowed by flex of the bushes. A temporary rubber assembly lubricant can help get things in place, if needed, which then quickly dries out. Any lubricant is bad for an elastomer joint, as it allows the elastomer to rub on the metal pin or housing, and believe it or not, the metal wears (very quickly), not the elastomer.

Greases attract road grit, and some dry lubes attract moisture, assisting with joint wear. The advantage of tight rubber joints is they are immune to water and dust damage. Oil, age and sunlight are their only enemies.

I personally would continue with an unlubricated rubber bush, tightened when the suspension is at ride height.

Just as good would be ball rod ends (heim joints) which would last a long time if you could keep them clean & greased.

 

That is very different experience with poly urethane suspension bushings from mine. I have been taught that rubber bushings are not lubricated but poly urethane bushings are lubricated. It is important to avoid petroleum based lubricants with poly urethane bushings.

As I said, I encourage people to google lubricating poly urethane bushings and decide for themselves. My knowledge says to use lithium based lubricants, in fact, little packets of lithium grease are sometimes included with a set of poly urethane suspension bushings.

[MartyNZ]

Thanks GuzziMoto, I stand corrected. My comments are OK for rubber, but not for urethane.

However there are various opinions on the use and life expectancy of urethane in a joint designed for more resilient material like rubber.

http://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/?p=103

http://www.fordmods.com/gearbox-suspension-brake-driveline-f4/upgrade-to-nolathane-bushes-diy-tips-and-tricks-t17799.html

Nolothane is an Australian urethane bush manufacturer. They say use molybdenum disulfide lubricant on the inner bush diameter. http://www.nolathane.com.au/faq.php#q5

They claim good things about their bushes, but don't mention durability.

[Lucky Phil]

Why would you mess about with all of this when you can run a simple cheap and light rod with rose joints at each end?

Ciao

[docc]

Why would you mess about with all of this when you can run a simple cheap and light rod with rose joints at each end?

Ciao

That's good question. I really like the design (look) of the V11 rod. I think it suits the various design features of the bike overall. I realize that 1) it's not terribly visible, and 2) that's a purely cosmetic reason.

 

I continue to ponder that the suspension travel would be less impeded by using rose joint/Heim joint ends. How much less? Not known, but surely it would be better to have the suspension rise and fall without "flex of the bushes" (as MartyNZ stated). Could easily be one of those things that makes theoretical sense, yet has no appreciable practical difference. Like the 15 pounds I took off the Sport's rear end. That's like 2% of the bike's weight with me on it.

[Lucky Phil]

As I mentioned I couldn't feel any difference in suspension performance but then again I didn't do a " back to back" blind test and my bike has an all singing and dancing Wilbers rear shock. The theory says the rod and bearings should have less impact on suspension movement and that may be the case.

As for the practicality well rod end bearings are fairly inexpensive as is a piece of aluminium rod of the required length.

Having a lather at home i think I could machine up a rod in about 15 minutes, 25 if I wanted it to look fancy and wasted down.

So if you have a local machine shop around, count on an hours labor, say what, $60, a piece of stock at $10 and a pair of rod ends at maybe $35 for 2. So around $100 all up...cheap. Then you have something that is lighter, looks better is easier to service and if you choose the right rod ends, nil lubricating. 

Is there really a decision here when the original one comes to the end of its life?

Ciao 

[GuzziMoto]

I see where some would like to keep the stock set up and try to make it work the best it can.

But if I find myself in the position of needing to "fix" the existing set up because the rubber bushing is worn out I will almost certainly replace it with the same kind of set up my Daytona came with stock, i.e., the rod and heim joint option. I think the only reason the V11 did not come that way was cost. Pure and simple.

Going with Polyurethane bushings is probably better than the stock rubber bushings. But I doubt you will get much better motion from them. But it is easy enough for someone to put in the polyurethane bushings and see how freely the rod moves after. I know this, the rod on my Daytona moves perfectly freely. It adds no resistance to the rear suspension motion.

[docc]

Read this phrase in an auto magazine regarding differences in performance that aren't significant in a real world setting: "within the noise." I thought this likely reflects my thinking that the rubber or urethane could limit suspension travel - yeah, could be, probably "wiithin the noise."

 

What rod ends would need nil lubrication?

[GuzziMoto]

Read this phrase in an auto magazine regarding differences in performance that aren't significant in a real world setting: "within the noise." I thought this likely reflects my thinking that the rubber or urethane could limit suspension travel - yeah, could be, probably "wiithin the noise."

 

What rod ends would need nil lubrication?

My understanding is this.

Rubber bushings do not get lubricated. They rely on the flex of the rubber and do not spin.

Polyurethane bushings get lubricated when installed and then occasionally as needed. I assume they move to some degree and don't just flex.

Metal joints like Heim joints and bearings need occasional lubrication.

 

Will you feel a difference? I don't know. But to me knowing it is better would be enough.