V11 Sport Overheating

[fotoguzzi]

A friend with a Jackal had a poor fuel delivery problem.. we found this pinched hose.

 

http://postimage.org/image/jdgawkjij/

[Kiwi_Roy]

Some Guzzi manuals show the small connection coupled to the manifold which would effectivly cause it to vary fuel flow according to manifold pressure. I think this must have been the case for early injection systems.

 

The injectors operate in the choked flow region not effected by manifold pressure, it's all about how long they are open.

 

As Tom M says, don't connect anything there (I wish Luigi would snip it off)

[moto fugazzi]

Does anybody have a diagram for fuel line routing? I'd like to make sure mine is correct.

As of now, here's how the fuel line is routed: From the petcock to the fuel filter then fuel pump, then fuel pump to the LH injector, then output of LH injector to the RH injector, the output of RH injector going to the fuel regulator. Sound correct?

Ken

[Lucky Phil]

Does anybody have a diagram for fuel line routing? I'd like to make sure mine is correct.

As of now, here's how the fuel line is routed: From the petcock to the fuel filter then fuel pump, then fuel pump to the LH injector, then output of LH injector to the RH injector, the output of RH injector going to the fuel regulator. Sound correct?

Ken

After the filter it doesnt matter which way the fuel flows through the injector loop.

Ciao

[moto fugazzi]

Just checked fuel pressure. 42psi when ignition is turned on, and went up to 45psi when the bike was started. Is this within spec?

Just received the manual petcock from MG Cycle and a new filter. I'll change them out this weekend when it warms up a bit.

I did not see any kinked fuel lines either.

Ken

[Lucky Phil]

Just checked fuel pressure. 42psi when ignition is turned on, and went up to 45psi when the bike was started. Is this within spec?

Just received the manual petcock from MG Cycle and a new filter. I'll change them out this weekend when it warms up a bit.

I did not see any kinked fuel lines either.

Ken

Fuel pressure is good.Check it again after some running.Pumps sometimes give trouble when hot.

Have you checked the tank vent?

Ciao

[moto fugazzi]

Just checked fuel pressure. 42psi when ignition is turned on, and went up to 45psi when the bike was started. Is this within spec?

Just received the manual petcock from MG Cycle and a new filter. I'll change them out this weekend when it warms up a bit.

I did not see any kinked fuel lines either.

Ken

Fuel pressure is good.Check it again after some running.Pumps sometimes give trouble when hot.

Have you checked the tank vent?

Ciao

I'll check the tank vent again, but when I had the tank off a while back, it seemed fine. I'll do it when I put on the manual petcock.

 

Also a strange new twist. Took the bike for a long ride tonight. My voltmeter started reading 14.1-14.4V (it has never gone that high before. Usually 13.9V at most). I then noticed that the pipes had stopped glowing red, and the bike ran awesome-no pinging, popping on decel, etc. I then turned on my LED aux. lights (20W total), and the voltage dropped to about 12.5V (normally it's only about .4V drop at most). After I turned them off, the voltage stayed under 13.9V, and the bike started running like garbage-it was even worse than what it has been doing. Don't know if it's all related, but probably time for a new battery. I'll go through the electrical connections as well when I have the tank off.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Also a strange new twist. Took the bike for a long ride tonight. My voltmeter started reading 14.1-14.4V (it has never gone that high before. Usually 13.9V at most). I then noticed that the pipes had stopped glowing red, and the bike ran awesome-no pinging, popping on decel, etc. I then turned on my LED aux. lights (20W total), and the voltage dropped to about 12.5V (normally it's only about .4V drop at most). After I turned them off, the voltage stayed under 13.9V, and the bike started running like garbage-it was even worse than what it has been doing. Don't know if it's all related, but probably time for a new battery. I'll go through the electrical connections as well when I have the tank off.

 

That's very interesting, I think you are onto something.

The Ducatti Energia regulators I have pulled apart have all been set at 13.8 Volts but with the stock wiring they charge battery to about 14.5 Volts due to Luigi's Voltage drop through the headlight relay

I have worked with several owners who were having charging problems but none have mentioned the bad running like that.

I believe the bikes ECU compensates somewhat for slight change in Voltage opening the injectors a little bit longer for low and v.v. for high. I also know from experience if the Voltage goes very high (16+ Volts) the ECU will cut right off.

 

Where abouts do you have your Voltmeter connected, directly to the battery posts or somewhere at the headlight bucket?

(depending on how it's wired the reading could have a different meaning)

 

Have you added a good ground wire to the regulator case, I can't stress that enough, just a short wire between the case and a timing cover screw.

Charging Circuit Problems2.pdf

 

Do you have after market headlight relay/s,?

(relays can rob the battery of 0.5 Volt or more because it defeats Luigi's plan)

 

How are your LEDs wired, direct to the battery of some part of the harness?

 

Did anything else happen between running fine and running lousy like a stop and start?

 

Test Point Layout.pdf

I suggest you test the resistance of all the switches in particular Note 4, 5 and 8

 

PM sent

[fotoguzzi]

have a known good battery before you do anything else.

[moto fugazzi]

Also a strange new twist. Took the bike for a long ride tonight. My voltmeter started reading 14.1-14.4V (it has never gone that high before. Usually 13.9V at most). I then noticed that the pipes had stopped glowing red, and the bike ran awesome-no pinging, popping on decel, etc. I then turned on my LED aux. lights (20W total), and the voltage dropped to about 12.5V (normally it's only about .4V drop at most). After I turned them off, the voltage stayed under 13.9V, and the bike started running like garbage-it was even worse than what it has been doing. Don't know if it's all related, but probably time for a new battery. I'll go through the electrical connections as well when I have the tank off.

 

That's very interesting, I think you are onto something.

The Ducatti Energia regulators I have pulled apart have all been set at 13.8 Volts but with the stock wiring they charge battery to about 14.5 Volts due to Luigi's Voltage drop through the headlight relay

I have worked with several owners who were having charging problems but none have mentioned the bad running like that.

I believe the bikes ECU compensates somewhat for slight change in Voltage opening the injectors a little bit longer for low and v.v. for high. I also know from experience if the Voltage goes very high (16+ Volts) the ECU will cut right off.

 

Where abouts do you have your Voltmeter connected, directly to the battery posts or somewhere at the headlight bucket?

(depending on how it's wired the reading could have a different meaning)

 

Have you added a good ground wire to the regulator case, I can't stress that enough, just a short wire between the case and a timing cover screw.

Charging Circuit Problems2.pdf

 

Do you have after market headlight relay/s,?

(relays can rob the battery of 0.5 Volt or more because it defeats Luigi's plan)

 

How are your LEDs wired, direct to the battery of some part of the harness?

 

Did anything else happen between running fine and running lousy like a stop and start?

 

Test Point Layout.pdf

I suggest you test the resistance of all the switches in particular Note 4, 5 and 8

 

PM sent

The voltmeter is connected to the battery via fuzeblock. http://www.fuzeblocks.com The aux lights are also thru the fuze block. There is also a separate relay for them that turns the aux. lights on 100% when the high beam is turned on. http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-QualiRegResou/-strse-22/Waterproof-Wireless-LED-Dimmer/Detail.bok

The PO installed relays for the headlight and high beam-they are both mounted in the headlight bucket.

 

There are 2 grounds on the regulator. 1 attached to the frame, and the other attached to the engine. I did that earlier this summer.

 

The only thing that happened between running fine and running lousy is when I was riding and the voltage was at 14.4, and when I turned on the high beam/aux lights, the voltage quickly dropped to about 12.5V on the meter. I was riding at the time, and the bike was not turned off at that time.

[Skeeve]

Maybe I missed it, but isn't the 1st thing to do whenever a bike equipped w/ a PCIII starts running funny is remove the PCIII & see if that cures the problem?

 

PCIIIs are nifty solutions to jailbreaking the efi, but they seem to suffer more than their fair share of electrical gremlins...

[moto fugazzi]

Maybe I missed it, but isn't the 1st thing to do whenever a bike equipped w/ a PCIII starts running funny is remove the PCIII & see if that cures the problem?

 

PCIIIs are nifty solutions to jailbreaking the efi, but they seem to suffer more than their fair share of electrical gremlins...

 

I did disconnect the PCIII, but the bike ran worse than ever. Must be due to the aftermarket intake and exhaust mods.

Kiwi Roy sent a ton of diagrams and things to test, so I think I'm on the right path as of now. I emailed Roy the results of one of my tests, and I'll see what he has to say about it...

 

FWIW, I did replace the battery today, installed a manual petcock, new fuel filter (just to be safe), and checked the diodes on the regulator. I also noticed that sometimes my hi beam switch doesn't work correctly and the low beam stays on when the hi beam is activated. That would explain the huge voltage drop when I turned on my hi beams. 115W draw vs. the 55W that it should have been drawing. I cleaned and lubed the switch a few times now, but it always doesn't work correctly.

[fotoguzzi]

That would explain the huge voltage drop when I turned on my hi beams. 115W draw vs. the 55W that it should have been drawing. I cleaned and lubed the switch a few times now, but it always doesn't work correctly.

these bikes need good positive voltage to run right. the huge voltage drop can be the reason bike runs bad.. fix it and all the other stuff might fall right in line and work fine.

[Kiwi_Roy]

That would explain the huge voltage drop when I turned on my hi beams. 115W draw vs. the 55W that it should have been drawing. I cleaned and lubed the switch a few times now, but it always doesn't work correctly.

these bikes need good positive voltage to run right. the huge voltage drop can be the reason bike runs bad.. fix it and all the other stuff might fall right in line and work fine.

Fotoguzzi

I'm slowly coming to that conclusion also.

With aftermarket headlight relays the battery looses half a Volt because it no longer benefits from the voltage drop through the standard headlight circuit, (the regulator senses the Voltage downstream of the relay).

At one time Ken had a diode added to boost it back up to the normal level.

I think this era bike would probably benefit greatly by upgrading the regulator to one of the more modern ones where the connections are made directly to the battery Positive and Negative.

Such as this 2004 EV

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_EV_Catalytic.gif

However I don't have any direct experience with these regulators, perhaps they also come with their share of baggage.

My old girl seems quite happy with any Voltage but I have a MyECU that compensates for Voltage fluctuation, I just assume the stock ones do too.

[moto fugazzi]

Just an update here.

I did change the relay that the PO had added to the headlight. He had taken the feed wires for the relay from the original headlight socket-not sure if this is proper or not. Charging on my voltmeter now reads 12.5V at idle and 14.7V at 3k+RPM's. I think the voltage is on the higher side (at cruising speeds) because the tail light is also on it's own relay, so it's probably not in the regulator circuit.

Anyway, the bike now runs much better. Minimal header glowing and engine pinging-at least in the 60f temps yesterday. Today it was 40f, and I had a bit more pinging, but I'm guessing it's because the fuel ratio is leaner in colder weather.

Ken