Kiwi_Roy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have been saying for a while now, after market headlight relays cause a charging problem with the Ducati Energia. I had no idea it would effect the running in this way. Thanks for the update. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Phil Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Minimal header glowing and engine pinging-at least in the 60f temps yesterday. Today it was 40f, and I had a bit more pinging, but I'm guessing it's because the fuel ratio is leaner in colder weather. Ken The fuel ratio should be "fairly" stable no matter what the temp, that's why the ecu has an engine temp probe. If anything it should be less likely to ping in cold conditions. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68C Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Minimal header glowing and engine pinging-at least in the 60f temps yesterday. Today it was 40f, and I had a bit more pinging, but I'm guessing it's because the fuel ratio is leaner in colder weather. Ken The fuel ratio should be "fairly" stable no matter what the temp, that's why the ecu has an engine temp probe. If anything it should be less likely to ping in cold conditions. Ciao Could it be that the reduced voltage means an equally reduced output from the air and oil temperature sensors, if they are not getting the correct input voltage then they may not output correctly either. The other half of head however assumes the sensors are fed from the ecu, probably at a regulated 5v and so a low battery or main circuit voltage should not affect things or cause pinging. ( I did start out with the word 'could'.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi_Roy Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Could it be that the reduced voltage means an equally reduced output from the air and oil temperature sensors, if they are not getting the correct input voltage then they may not output correctly either. The other half of head however assumes the sensors are fed from the ecu, probably at a regulated 5v and so a low battery or main circuit voltage should not affect things or cause pinging. ( I did start out with the word 'could'.) The voltage is regulated at 5 Volts as you say. Perhaps the injectors are a bit slugish in opening with low voltage. Cliffs MyECU takes Voltage into account but I don't know about the stock unit. One things fairly certain the mixture seems to be Voltage related. It's very strange for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto fugazzi Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Could it be that the reduced voltage means an equally reduced output from the air and oil temperature sensors, if they are not getting the correct input voltage then they may not output correctly either. The other half of head however assumes the sensors are fed from the ecu, probably at a regulated 5v and so a low battery or main circuit voltage should not affect things or cause pinging. ( I did start out with the word 'could'.) The voltage is regulated at 5 Volts as you say. Perhaps the injectors are a bit slugish in opening with low voltage. Cliffs MyECU takes Voltage into account but I don't know about the stock unit. One things fairly certain the mixture seems to be Voltage related. It's very strange for sure. As it turns out, I went over some rough railroad tracks too fast last night, and everything went crazy then. The bike WAS running flawlessly up to that point. After the tracks, voltage started swinging between 12.5V and 15.1V at cruising speeds, headers started glowing bright red, and the engine was popping and pinging. I then ran the diode tests on the regulator, and was getting an OL reading when I had one of the yellow wires in a certain position. Thanks to Kiwi Roy, he gave me some great info, and I did end up ordering the Electrosport ESR510 regulator, and it should be delivered on Saturday before the snow falls. I just need to figure out if the bad running is caused by the old regulator, or if some bad connection caused the regulator to go bad, and will keep causing problems down the road... I did hook up the VDST to the bike afterwards, and the air temp was 83f (engine temp was the same IIRC). It was only 42f outside, but I'm guessing the engine heat got to the sensor since it was sitting parked in the garage. An hour later with a box fan blowing on the engine, the air temp was down to 61f, and the engine temp was at 71f. Maybe I should remove the air temp sensor from the air box, and put it further away from the engine? I would think as long as the bike is moving, the sensor should be ok in the air box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Could it be that the reduced voltage means an equally reduced output from the air and oil temperature sensors, if they are not getting the correct input voltage then they may not output correctly either. The other half of head however assumes the sensors are fed from the ecu, probably at a regulated 5v and so a low battery or main circuit voltage should not affect things or cause pinging. ( I did start out with the word 'could'.) The voltage is regulated at 5 Volts as you say. Perhaps the injectors are a bit slugish in opening with low voltage. Cliffs MyECU takes Voltage into account but I don't know about the stock unit. One things fairly certain the mixture seems to be Voltage related. It's very strange for sure. As it turns out, I went over some rough railroad tracks too fast last night, and everything went crazy then. The bike WAS running flawlessly up to that point. After the tracks, voltage started swinging between 12.5V and 15.1V at cruising speeds, headers started glowing bright red, and the engine was popping and pinging. I then ran the diode tests on the regulator, and was getting an OL reading when I had one of the yellow wires in a certain position. Thanks to Kiwi Roy, he gave me some great info, and I did end up ordering the Electrosport ESR510 regulator, and it should be delivered on Saturday before the snow falls. I just need to figure out if the bad running is caused by the old regulator, or if some bad connection caused the regulator to go bad, and will keep causing problems down the road... I did hook up the VDST to the bike afterwards, and the air temp was 83f (engine temp was the same IIRC). It was only 42f outside, but I'm guessing the engine heat got to the sensor since it was sitting parked in the garage. An hour later with a box fan blowing on the engine, the air temp was down to 61f, and the engine temp was at 71f. Maybe I should remove the air temp sensor from the air box, and put it further away from the engine? I would think as long as the bike is moving, the sensor should be ok in the air box. Is that air temperature or :engine: temperature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto fugazzi Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Could it be that the reduced voltage means an equally reduced output from the air and oil temperature sensors, if they are not getting the correct input voltage then they may not output correctly either. The other half of head however assumes the sensors are fed from the ecu, probably at a regulated 5v and so a low battery or main circuit voltage should not affect things or cause pinging. ( I did start out with the word 'could'.) The voltage is regulated at 5 Volts as you say. Perhaps the injectors are a bit slugish in opening with low voltage. Cliffs MyECU takes Voltage into account but I don't know about the stock unit. One things fairly certain the mixture seems to be Voltage related. It's very strange for sure. As it turns out, I went over some rough railroad tracks too fast last night, and everything went crazy then. The bike WAS running flawlessly up to that point. After the tracks, voltage started swinging between 12.5V and 15.1V at cruising speeds, headers started glowing bright red, and the engine was popping and pinging. I then ran the diode tests on the regulator, and was getting an OL reading when I had one of the yellow wires in a certain position. Thanks to Kiwi Roy, he gave me some great info, and I did end up ordering the Electrosport ESR510 regulator, and it should be delivered on Saturday before the snow falls. I just need to figure out if the bad running is caused by the old regulator, or if some bad connection caused the regulator to go bad, and will keep causing problems down the road... I did hook up the VDST to the bike afterwards, and the air temp was 83f (engine temp was the same IIRC). It was only 42f outside, but I'm guessing the engine heat got to the sensor since it was sitting parked in the garage. An hour later with a box fan blowing on the engine, the air temp was down to 61f, and the engine temp was at 71f. Maybe I should remove the air temp sensor from the air box, and put it further away from the engine? I would think as long as the bike is moving, the sensor should be ok in the air box. Is that air temperature or :engine: temperature? 61f was air temp according to the VDST, and engine temp was 71f (VDST reading). I'm assuming that they are taken from the air temp sensor in the air box, and the cylinder head sensor. Hope that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 71F at the head? The motor had been sitting for hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto fugazzi Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 71F at the head? The motor had been sitting for hours? 71F was after about an hour of sitting with a box fan blowing on the engine. It was 43F outside at that point, so I imagine it cooled down fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto fugazzi Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 As of now, the problem seems fixed. I just installed an Electrosport ESR510 voltage regulator and took it for a 15 mile ride. Bike ran great except for some popping on decel, and some slight pinging at WOT, but that may be due to the 35F temps outside (fuel mixture is leaner in cold weather). With the new regulator, I have 12.6V at idle and 13.9V at 3K+ RPMs. Seems like the regulator was the culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoguzzi Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 As it turns out, I went over some rough railroad tracks too fast last night, and everything went crazy then. that tells me bad connection somewhere and the first place I would look is the regulator ground. since you have a new reg you may never know.. be sure it has clean ground to block and battery ground wire is clean on BOTH ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto fugazzi Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 As it turns out, I went over some rough railroad tracks too fast last night, and everything went crazy then. that tells me bad connection somewhere and the first place I would look is the regulator ground. since you have a new reg you may never know.. be sure it has clean ground to block and battery ground wire is clean on BOTH ends. Agreed about the bad connection. I did have 2 grounds on the original regulator, and the new unit is directly connected to the battery, plus 2 case grounds as well. I'm going to spend the winter cleaning the bike and all electrical connections as well as checking for voltage drops, etc. Kiwi Roy gave me a nice list of things to check and test (that guy is amazing!). With the snow coming tonight, I can at least rest assured that the bike is running properly for now. One less thing to worry about over winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 As of now, the problem seems fixed. I just installed an Electrosport ESR510 voltage regulator and took it for a 15 mile ride. Bike ran great except for some popping on decel, and some slight pinging at WOT, but that may be due to the 35F temps outside (fuel mixture is leaner in cold weather). With the new regulator, I have 12.6V at idle and 13.9V at 3K+ RPMs. Seems like the regulator was the culprit. Sounds like you're making great progress on the Guzzi! It would be good to see just a little more voltage (+ 0.3-0.5), but that may show up in the loom grooming over the winter. Cast a jaundiced eye on your 30 amp regulator fuse. How do you figure the fueling is leaner in cold temps? My Sport drops fuel economy in cold temps about 10%. Seems like denser air would support more fuel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Phil Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 How do you figure the fueling is leaner in cold temps? My Sport drops fuel economy in cold temps about 10%. Seems like denser air would support more fuel? Because he's thinking of it like a carbed engine. Lower OAT = leaner mixture. hasn't figured the temp and pressure compensation trim tables into the equation. Ciao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moto fugazzi Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 An update here: Went for a 43 mile ride last night. Bike ran great until I took the dark side roads back home (about 35 miles into the trip). I turned on my LED aux. lights (44watt total draw), and the voltage dropped to about 12.6V from 13.8V. The headers started glowing within a minute, and the bike ran like garbage again. After I turned off the lights, the voltage went back up to 13.8V, but the bike continued running poorly the rest of the way home. I'm assuming the alternator should be able to handle the extra 44watt draw? I also noticed that my sidestand switch doesn't always work properly (bike wouldn't start in neutral with the side stand down until I wiggled it a bit, then it started just fine). Not sure if this could have anything to do with the problem. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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