Sannyasin-Newbie Request

[Sannyasin]

Hi Everyone:

 

I need some help in making a good offer on a 2002 V11.

Stats & current situation as follows:

2nd owner, dealer maintained with records, 4,917 miles

Fairing, gastank and body panels in flawless condition except for one small blemish on RR panel.

Seat & cover in flawless condition. New battery in 2008. Shift spring snafu taken care of.

Typical crummy paint flaking on engine cases, which I am not complaining about.

Owner took bike into dealer for new skins + minor adjustments. His tab to dealer is $600.

Owner is an older man like myself, replaced handle bars and foot rests for more comfortable ride,

still has the original parts + factory issued repair/maintenance printed manual. Has legitimate reason for selling.

 

I paid for an oil analysis. Report shows use of Synthetic oil. Detected that copper was on the high side, but not a major concern.

Possibly residual from the wear-in process.

 

His asking price is $6500 which is a little high I think.

I checked (3) different websites for retail prices on this model. Average between the three is $4700.

So I want to make offer of $5300 to $5500 which I think would be a good price considering the low millage and condition.

 

I would appreciate any comments/suggestions from members here.

I do want the bike, and if I get it, you can be sure that I'll be an active participant on this forum.

Thanks in advance

 

 

[mznyc]

As a self-proclaimed deal seeker that I am,I would be looking to pay 5K or under for an 02, non-Ohlins,few farkles,mid-winter in Northern climes bike.Ive seen 02's in good condition with more miles go for under 4K.At 20K miles they're broken in and usually sorted.If you can be patient, in the 6-6.5K range ,you should be able to find a good condition Ohlins model.

My

[fotoguzzi]

no Roper plate? talk him down below 5k?

who pays for an oil analysis? give the old man his asking price!

[Sannyasin]

fotoguzzi: What is a Roper plate?

                I did say that I paid for oil analysis. My cost?---$30, and well worth it, for a bike sitting in a dealership

                without the possibility for test ride in these freezing temps.

                 So, the negotiations have begun. He's down to $6,000.

[mznyc]

Some members have reported seeing the oil light occasionally flicker.The Roper Plate is essentially a metal gasket/spacer that sits between the lower block and oil pan.It is fabricated by Pete Roper the master Guzzi wrencher in Australia .The way the oil pick up system is designed,if your going up an incline or let the front wheel get higher than the rear ,the pick up tube wont be able to grab the oil because it the oil sloshes away from it.The Plate evens the distribution of the fluid in the pan ,allowing constant oil flow to motor.Ive never seen an oil light,as most dont,but some have or install as a precaution.They are available through several sources.Much more information in the forum,...

 

A member just bought an 03/04 Rosso Corsa in mint condition for $5500.00,a great deal, but there are other ones out there,I'm always scanning the ads,just window shopping,but I'm a well informed buyer if I decide to buy another some day.You have a buyer's advantage being winter.At 6K you are in an Ohlins equipped price range,a big improvement from a standard model.FWIW

[Sannyasin]

mznyc: Thank you for your precise and very detailed description of the Roper Plate, I really appreciate it! If I do, purchase this bike, the very first thing I'll do, is to find a suitable oil gallery

             location and pipe in a Stewart Warner (or similar quality) oil pressure gage. That would suit my analog nature anyway, which is why this particular Moto Guzzi model appeals to me.

             I do make informed decisions and I'm well aware that this topic (and other concerns) can be found elsewhere in this forum, so thank you for that also.

 

             Now, since the Ohlins have already been mentioned twice in this topic, perhaps I get a sense of where more replies could lead, so I want to cut-to-the-chase in this discussion.

             For sure, Ohlins and fancy pipes, with or without crossover, or expensive slip-ons would certainly be "eye candy" to someone else, that is not why I'm interested in this particular bike.

             Except for slightly taller windscreen, and the repositioned handle bars and foot rests, already mentioned earlier, this bike is bone stock! That is what appeals to me, having owned

             various motorcycles since 1969, and knowing my way around the block, so to speak in these matters. Owners who add on this type of equipment are not just interested in having

             it look pretty sitting in their garage, and we all know it! My Norton Commando sure knows the corners along with the best of them even though technically, it's out of date. So I already

             have that, if this was my intention here.

 

             Just a little about me: I was a supervisor in a design engineering environment, and quickly came to know who was telling me the truth or who was bullshiting me. I'm fortunate,

             actually, in having the opportunity to talk to the owner over the phone while in the dealership looking at his bike, so I believe him when he gave me his very valid reason for selling.

             He's just the type of guy you'd want to invite over after the sale to drink some beers with. This in itself is a big + with me.

 

             Hell, the bike may very well be listed here in the members gallery, and owner maybe following this discussion for all I know.

             Enough said. So pile it on guys, I'm all ears.

[mznyc]

Sannyasin,

Oil pressure gauge is a cool idea,Ive been wanting to do that for years.Member Ryland did a great write-up on an install and I think he has a kit on his site.

There was no presumption on my part of your experience.I assume everybody does some homework and makes an effort to do research,but with so much information out there it's impossible to know every tidbit ,about every aspect of the bike.I hate the forum Nazis' "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION" orders.Find that to be quite rude.That wasn't my intention.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5692 This is a good place to start about common problems,really, it should scream at the top of a page for people doing research, if you haven't seen it yet,I wish I had done a "Scura" search  before I bought my Scura.If I had ,I would have saved myself time and $$$ if I had known about the bad clutch's in them.I would have held out for a Nero/Rosso..The Roper Plate is mentioned in there.

I had never owned a Guzzi,but was an experienced sport tourer when I came here.Many people have been more than generous,that have much more experience with bikes and Guzzi's than I.Because of that I feel that it is Karma passing on info to people asking for opinions.Although I know a lot more about the bike now,most here will know more than me.What I do know is value,without the emotional/ ethereal factor.I can't explain it but just can't help myself searching ads and reading them for the past 7 years.I've only bought one,but there's always that special one,around the corner.Kinda like the women in my life.

I'm with you,bone stock bikes attract me,bling doesn't.Now functional improvements are a different thing.The uprated suspension is quite helpful when hitting medium to high speed turns.It's just planted.The standard suspension is quite good,but as you know, suspension is the best investment you can make for the $.The uprated Ohlins is a good value,not visual bling.

The engine in my opinion,is lacking down low for usable power,below 4-5k.Mid-pipes and cans and PC's greatly help improve driveabilty below those revs.Again,a practical improvement,not aesthetic.I have stock exhausts on all my other bikes,but they all have at least 100HP and smooth across the rev range,so more than enough power everywhere for me,fully loaded, for sport-touring.

I like to ride longs days.So comfort is important.The seat,foot controls and raised bars do that.

You may find that the bike bone stock will work for you,comfort, powerwise.I wish mine did,I would have saved some money.But it is such a fun,unique bike it was worth the tweaking to get it to fit me.

Like you farkles just don't get me excited,but a good deal does

I'm not sayin the bike your lookin at is not a good deal,just that I've seen examples similar to it for less.Like you said,average price is $4700.00,so add on $5-600 for condition you'd still be looking at $5200-5300.In the dead of winter,the softest market.

Good luck,whether with this bike or another,I'm sure it'll work out great.

Michael

[Sannyasin]

Michael,

So, seems I've found not only a very knowledgeable person, but a kindred spirit who enjoys writing. The first improvement I'll make, is to know when to stop typing, so as to

avoid what you see above. Isn't some of what you've just mentioned, come down to one's personality and temperament? In my work I was so good at crossing the t's and

dotting the i's, but then when applying that attribute to my personal life? Gosh, what a mess sometimes, and missed oportunities also. I've had to chuckle to myself when

reading: "but there's always that special one, around the corner" Sure, been there myself, and have my own stories 'bout the one that got away.

 

Also have had some not so memorable times when I haggled the guy down to the last damn dime. At first feeling so smug and "smart" inside, having done so, but then?--

later just feeling rather shitty inside, because that's just not who I am. I'd like to have this bike, but am not a collector per se. I have two of my own, as you can see here,

and they are both classics in their own right. In these days of Craigslist and "fleabay", and the mentality that goes along with it, perhaps I'll miss this one also.

 

I agree with you Michael, that a suspension upgrade is the best investment I could ever make. I enjoy long trips also, and these Ohlins would be on my wish list. Like many

my age, I do have a wee bit of arthritis in my shoulders, so that more comfortable riding position is a big +. The bike is already set-up for this, and oh, btw, no longer have

a chain to contend with, a first for me.

 

Once again this is getting long in the tooth, so just want to say how nice it is to have this very pleasant chat with you.

Let's see what happens

Bye

Paul

[mznyc]

Anytime Paul.

In retail sales we used to call people who would argue over every penny ,"biters".Chomp,chomp,chomp,every penny.They would try to wear you down,very annoying.

What I do is ,do the research,know what the real markets bear,then make an offer,always for cash and ready to do it immediately .If they say no,I thank them,shake their hand and walk away.

In the hypocritical department,I do have some bling,that offer no functional value.A MG Carbon Fiber Fairing and a Stucci CF Alt cover,as the crap paint quite often peels from some bikes.

Keep posting any questions,and congrats on the joining the loony bin,er ,ah ,... club

[Sannyasin]

Michael,

Joining the loony bin, huh? Well, I accept with deep gratitude, 'cause I have a bit of my own madness, from time to time---hee hee, ha ha.

Now, here's what I'm really wanting to say, just as an afterthought: I'm thinking there must be some money here for the dealer, which is why the initial price was $6500.

Everyone today, including the butcher, baker and that candle-stick maker, has internet access to used bike prices. And the dealer certainly knows this!

                                                                                          K.B.B. was $4850 suggested retail

                                                                                          NADA was $4678 average retail

                                                                           Motorcycle Consumer News was $4655

So, that's where that average of $4700 came from. Now, as noted in the beginning of this topic (sigh), owner has a tab to the dealer of $600 for new skins (nice ones, btw)

AND, a set of new brake pads, which had yet to be installed. (something is itching my butt, wondering why a bike with only 4917 miles, would even need a new set)

Now, in addition to all of this, suggested prices were for average miles, 35K-40K, depending on the source, which is certainly not the case with this particular bike.

 

About that dealer: This is a reputable dealer with a long-standing history in the area. Selling Ducati, MV Agusta, Aprilla, Moto Guzzi & Vespa scooters.

Father of the dealer's owner once had a dealership of his own, selling Triumph's. On Sundays during Summer months, usually a nice bunch of guys leave here for rides

on twisty roads. What I am trying to say here, is that if dealer wasn't honest, no possibility of staying in business in this shitty economy we all find ourselves in today.

 

I did make an initial offer of $5300, which was rejected, but anticipated that anyway. Just now thinking owner is most likely reading all of this:  Hi there!

So, off we go. And those afterthoughs? They certainly keep coming in the Mind, always one more, until one just gets tired of listening to them and drops the whole damn thing,

OR, you decide to move into one's Heart, where there is either yes or no.

 

Hey guys, my little two brain-celled mind has been in overtime, just thinking 'bout this today. I think I'll relax and go sit on my electric chair.

[68C]

I always imagine I have bought the bike then ten seconds later I want to sell it.  What price would I advertise it at, how would I handle those who tried to beat me down to the market price.  It's like any purchase of a second hand item - you should be able to sell it for what you paid, if not you overpaid.

[Chuck]

I always imagine I have bought the bike then ten seconds later I want to sell it.  What price would I advertise it at, how would I handle those who tried to beat me down to the market price.  It's like any purchase of a second hand item - you should be able to sell it for what you paid, if not you overpaid.

I'm perfectly willing to over pay if it's *what I want* and it's normally unavailable. I looked for a Rosso Corsa for a *really* long time before I found Rosie in rough condition. I paid $500 more than she was worth, and was happy to do it. After going through her, I wouldn't take $1000 more than I gave.

I had been looking for a Lario for a good while, too, and gave more than it was worth when one became available. At my age, I don't have years to wait for another to show up.. Naturally, since then, I've seen a better deal on both, but I've had some wonderful experiences that I wouldn't have had.

[mznyc]

Very Nice,low mile Cafe Sport on Ebay,...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moto-Guzzi-Cafe-Sport-/251217990319?pt=US_motorcycles&hash=item3a7dc252af

[Sannyasin]

Hi Michael:

Thanks for tip on ebay Guzzi. I did make my final offer for the bike here in Michigan earlier this week. I have not heard back, so I can only assume one of two possibilities.

1) Owner is willing to hold-out on his $6k price, waiting for Spring-like weather, or that "greater fool" to show up---that's not going to be me.

2) Dealer has $money in it for him also, and my hunch is, that this is the case.

 

Either way, I'm not waiting around for anything! Back at the ranch er, shop, I have everything I need, to build a very nice performance engine for my Honda.

Wiseco 836 big bore kit, Mikuni smooth-bore carbs, and a really Kick-Ass fully ported cylinder head. (I guess I can say that here on this Guzzi site huh?)

But then, it won't be a Guzzi, now will it?

 

Once again, let's see what happens.

Paul

[jrt]

Just be patient.  The V11's come up for sale pretty regularly.