2001 v11 Front End Swap?

[GuzziMoto]

I learned to use two finger, the first and second fingers, racing. It allows you to use the other two to blip the throttle to rev match while braking hard into a corner. Not really that useful on the street, but I still tend to do it like that. It works better , though, when you have brakes that require less effort. It does not work well (the two finger technique) on our Lario. That takes at least three, and sometimes four, fingers to squeeze the brakes hard enough with those old style disc brakes. I have seen people with modern brakes who are able to use just one finger to brake. Something else to add into the equation is that matching the available force to the force required (i.e., using two or three fingers if that is all that is required) can make it harder to lock the brakes in a panic stop situation. If you think about it, if I can easily lock the brakes using four fingers and I use four fingers, in a panic situation it is likely I will lock the brakes. If I use two fingers, and with two fingers it is much harder to lock the brakes, it is less likely I will lock the brakes in a panic situation. That has been my experience. Your experience may vary from mine.

Using the two outboard fingers may be a variation of that. Using those two fingers would likely reduce the power you can apply to the lever and thus reduce the likely-hood of locking the brakes. As long as you can still apply enough force to stop in the required time....

[LeMaynes]

Muscle memory.

 

...use the other two to blip the throttle to rev match while braking hard into a corner...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztNQXfHGBsw

[nobleswood]

Sp838 & GuzziMoto,

Why did you change the triple trees if they have different offsets ? Do the forks not fit the OEM's ?

What ended up being the length of your reworked GSXR forks ?

Thanks

I'm weighing up getting Racetech parts for the originals or upgrading to cartridge forks from a GSXR...

[docc]

11 minutes ago, nobleswood said:

Sp838 & GuzziMoto,

Why did you change the triple trees if they have different offsets ? Do the forks not fit the OEM's ?

What ended up being the length of your reworked GSXR forks ?

Thanks

I'm weighing up getting Racetech parts for the originals or upgrading to cartridge forks from a GSXR...

What about the Andreani cartridges that have become available for the V11?

[nobleswood]

I've been looking at the Showa's that were fitted to certain models of GSXR years which are basically the same as the Griso units.

Then looking at Racetech components which basically give you the shims & bits to re-valve the forks yourself. So as much as sorting out the forks I'm looking at the education & figuring it out myself idea.

It could result in a big mistake but as GuzziMoto said; GSXR parts are plentiful, cheaper than most & there are lots of aftermarket parts out there for backyard tinkerers.

[Lucky Phil]

20 minutes ago, nobleswood said:

I've been looking at the Showa's that were fitted to certain models of GSXR years which are basically the same as the Griso units.

Then looking at Racetech components which basically give you the shims & bits to re-valve the forks yourself. So as much as sorting out the forks I'm looking at the education & figuring it out myself idea.

It could result in a big mistake but as GuzziMoto said; GSXR parts are plentiful, cheaper than most & there are lots of aftermarket parts out there for backyard tinkerers.

Its always a hard one, at what point do you just accept what you've got and enhance it as much as possible and at what point do you actually dilute the essence of the bike. All its shortcomings also add up to the whole. If you go the GSXR fork route you'll probably end up with better front end but then you'll have different tripples,different forks,different brakes, probably different instruments or find a way to adapt the originals to the new triples, different front guard different front wheel. I mean when does it stop being a V11 and end up a Guzzuki.

Personally I'd retain the original forks and fit cartridges.

I have the same issue with my bike and fitting the Daytona engine, it still needs to be at heart a V11 so major components like forks I'll live with and update internally. My aim is also to be able to return it to a std V11 if necessary so no major structural changes.

Ciao 

   

[nobleswood]

That is the question ! What do you accept & what do you feel you can change without altering the bike too much.

So I'm trying to find out if some version of the GSXR Showa forks are a straight swap, upgrading to a cartridge fork, the triple trees staying the same.

For me the engine is powerful enough, it's the suspension I want to work with.

Just asking questions & learning.

Phil, you have the GSXR 1000. What year is it ? What's the length of the forks? Would the forks fit the V11 triple trees ?

Happy New Year All 

[Lucky Phil]

4 hours ago, nobleswood said:

That is the question ! What do you accept & what do you feel you can change without altering the bike too much.

So I'm trying to find out if some version of the GSXR Showa forks are a straight swap, upgrading to a cartridge fork, the triple trees staying the same.

For me the engine is powerful enough, it's the suspension I want to work with.

Just asking questions & learning.

Phil, you have the GSXR 1000. What year is it ? What's the length of the forks? Would the forks fit the V11 triple trees ?

Happy New Year All 

Good question, I'll look and measure them up tomorrow. Minesa K7 2007 model 1000. I think from memory others have used 750 fork from what year i'm not sure and the triples also I believe with a shortened stem.

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

So Suzuki K7 forks

Centre to centre 205 mm (V11 210)

Length unloaded top of fork to axle ctr 720 (V11 750)

Distance triples are apart ( ie steering stem approx length) 200 (V11 190)

upper dia outer leg 50 (V11 54) lower dia outer leg 56 (V11 54) 

So it looks like from a brief overview that you could bore the V11 lowers out 2mm and run some short fork extensions with sleeves on the upper triples if you wanted to retail the V11 triples. Or you could bore the V11 lower triple and get a custom made upper triple.

Ciao 

 

[nobleswood]

Thanks 

[GuzziMoto]

Here is a site with specs on a large variety of GSXR forks. They have different lengths (I wanted as long as possible as the average Guzzi forks are longer than the average GSXR forks).

https://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135430

I also went with the full fork swap as it seemed easier. I am not sure if it is possible to find GSXR fork legs that will fit directly into the Guzzi triple clamps. But if you do, then you have to figure out how you are going to fit a front wheel. Swapping the entire fork set and wheel made for a simple conversion. The only thing I had to figure out beyond which forks to use was how to adapt the GSXR steering stem to the Guzzi headstock. And all that took was finding out that DRZ400 steering bearings had the right combination of inside and outside diameters.

[GuzziMoto]

Some additional info going off memory (and as I get older, that is less and less reliable).

Some model year GSXR's have issues with too much rake / not enough trail. So they make fork extensions for some model years that can help make them fit a larger motorcycle like a Guzzi better. The fork extensions basically add length to the top of the fork leg as an extra tall fork cap. But the forks tend to change every couple years, so a fork extension kit from one model often will only fit those one or two years. And some years don't offer the extensions as there isn't enough demand. When I bought a set for my Aprilia RXV roadracer project I made sure to get a set of GSXR forks that you could buy fork extensions for. For the Daytona I just went with a model year that offered longer forks stock.

Attached is a chart that list more specs than just fork leg diameter. It also lists lengths. If you can't read it, I have a higher res copy just let me know.

[nobleswood]

GuzziMoto,

Thanks for the answers to my questions 

I had been going down the same road about finding forks that are 770 mm and then wondering about fork extenders.

Having just found the chart that you posted above, last night 

Not knowing anything about the extenders, do you need a longer spring & longer rebound damping rod ? As the difference between, say the Showa's is roughly 40 mm

[nobleswood]

A bit of research turned up this from Traxxion

Top racers have found the need for Extended Fork Caps for the 2006-2010 Suzuki GSXR 600 and 750. With these special caps, you can lower the forks to increase trail and steering performance an additional 20mm in the triple clamps with out sacrificing any rigidity due to loss of clamping surface. This allows for great flexibility with geometry settings. These Extended Forks Caps are CNC machined from 6061 aircraft quality aluminum and are anodized black. Caps are sold in pairs for $199.95 each.

 

The reason to focus on the Showa's is because it's the same model thats in the Griso. Which I'm opening up to re-valve with Racetech shims 

There was a reference to Ohlins making a damper rod extension. More research needed.

 

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, nobleswood said:

A bit of research turned up this from Traxxion

Top racers have found the need for Extended Fork Caps for the 2006-2010 Suzuki GSXR 600 and 750. With these special caps, you can lower the forks to increase trail and steering performance an additional 20mm in the triple clamps with out sacrificing any rigidity due to loss of clamping surface. This allows for great flexibility with geometry settings. These Extended Forks Caps are CNC machined from 6061 aircraft quality aluminum and are anodized black. Caps are sold in pairs for $199.95 each.

 

The reason to focus on the Showa's is because it's the same model thats in the Griso. Which I'm opening up to re-valve with Racetech shims 

There was a reference to Ohlins making a damper rod extension. More research needed.

 

Try these guys, they make a V11 kit and are in the US.

https://traxxion.com/?make=3994&model=4008&year_id=4009&post_type=product&action=vpf-search

Ciao