V11 LE MANS 2002 STARTING PROBLEM

[COOLER THAN A COOL THING]

Hi fellow guzzi riders !

I have been riding my v11 without any problems for the summer so far, covering just over 4,000 miles, then one day last week, after just leaving work it just cut out for no apparent reason,then it restarted ok, 2 days later, im riding along with my wife, after 20 or so miles it coughed a few times, then cut out & coasted to a stop, it started straight away & continued ok for another 20 miles home.

Then this sunday just, i was on my way to an italian bike day in the new forest (uk) it coughed a few times, cruised to a holt & wouldnt restart, i noticed that when i turned on the ignition, that the fuel pump didnt make its usual whiring noise (priming), so i swopped the relays around & checked the fuses with no joy, i had to be recovered home.I then started looking on this forum for answers which opened up a minefield of things i thought might be connected.

The forum also made me aware of a tip over valve , because i have also been suffering the tank sucking in problem, i put this down to it being a plastic tank, i then looked at my bike & found i dont have a tipover valve fitted, it also has a manual fuel cock.

Any way back to the problem in hand.

I then stripped off the tank, removed the fuel pump & tested on a battery, it works fine, so now im in your hands, could it be the phase sensor ? i believe ive checked the side stand switch & found to be ok, could it be the ecu ? could it be the ignition switch ?

Any sensible suggestions will be gratefully received, cheers Simon

 

 

[Admin Jaap]

Probably heat related? Or maybe a loose or corroded mass connection?

[Tom M]

A loose battery connection would be the simplest fix but you probably already checked for that.  Do you use the kill switch often?  An intermittent kill switch could be the problem, but so could a lot of other things.

 

With the bike in neutral, sidestand down and clutch in, turn on the key and listen for the fuel pump priming.  If it doesn't try flicking the kill switch on & off a few times with the seat off so you can hear or feel if the fuel pump relay is working.  If not I'd check the kill, sidestand, and clutch switches first.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The clutch switch and timing sensor won't stop the pump priming

 

 

Check the Safety Circuit

Pull the sidestand relay and check for Voltage at the top pin (30), if you don't see 12V on 30 it's probably the Ignition Switch, sometimes it's just the grease gone hard with age or I have known the wires to snap off where they are soldered to the switch, it comes off with a couple of screws from underneath.

Then assuming you still have the sidestand switch check the next contact down, the Voltage should come and go as you work the stand.

Then put the relay back and pull relay 4, you should get Voltage on one of the small coil pins which will come and go as you work the Kill switch.

Of course it goes without saying you must have 12V on the top pin of relay 4 and 5.

[fotoguzzi]

those little bullet connectors under tank along left side of steering stem?

[Kiwi_Roy]

those little bullet connectors under tank along left side of steering stem?

Yes - are those what I show as ->>- 1,2 & 3 - on the diagram?

 

It's worth tightening those for sure,

[COOLER THAN A COOL THING]

Ok chaps, thanks for all your hints & tips, checked everything suggested, still didnt make sense, when it first broke down, i checked fuses & swopped a relay, well i have swopped another relay now, & worked straight away ! so guess i shall try and buy a new set of relays, any suggestions ? & thanks again for all your quick responses, cheers Simon

[Steve S]

Hi Simon, had the same problems with cutting out and failing to start a couple of weeks ago, replaced all 5 relays and its been no problem since including a 5 day trip to Chimay, Belgium,

here's a tip, I was quoted £12 each plus post for the relays but my local truck parts supply shop sold me the same Bosch relays for £3.20 each,

they are fitted to many cars and trucks like Vauxhalls and Mercs

[GuzziMoto]

There are a more then a few sources for better relays then came stock.

It is also a good idea to make sure the connections at the relays are clean and tight. more then a few have had issues with poor connections at the relay base.

I carry a spare set of relays when we travel. I don't carry many parts, but relays have let me down a few times.

[Kiwi_Roy]

The relay bases do build up resistance just sitting, I like to use Vaseline on the relay pins, I think this wards off corrosion.

Another problem is the little connectors spread with constant relay shuffling, I doubt many relays fail but if you swap them out it gives the contact a scrape to get a better contact for a while.

 

Here's how you can remove the connectors and tighten them.

 

 

The relays are a common style made by many manufacturers

I get mine from www.digikey.com part No Z2247-ND, these are an Omron part No G8HN-1C2TR DC12

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=19&y=17&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=z2247-nd

[Gregg]

I agree with all the above and tracked down my very intermittent starting fault by fiddling with the wires running into the relay block - when I gave them a gentle push the fuel pump kicked in, if I went for ride and tried to restart the bike it would not prime until I pushed the bundle of wires again.

Took it all apart and found at least 6 clips that were loose on the spade connectors of the relays. I crimped them all so they gave good contact and the bike has not missed a beat in 6 years since. I hope it is as easy to cure as my fault !

[docc]

The relays, and their connections are certainly the most likely culprit while the ignition switch and run switch also deserve mention. While we always want a problem to be one thing, it may be a combination of ills compounding.

 

The clutch bullet connectors are always worth fettling, but won't stall a motor or cause hard starting starting. The starter simply will not engage (crank) if those connectors or the clutch switch fail. This is the fault that turning the steering from lock to lock while pressing the start button may suddenly cause the starter to engage.

 

Looking forward to hearing how it sorts out!

[Welshguzzi]

Not used him myself, but Google Pyro Dan and by all accounts his relays are excellent value and arrive within days. Will be ordering a set for winter installation soon...........