Stucchi vs. Mistral crossover

[JBBenson]

I went down the same rabbit hole when I got my V11.

 

I decided to first get the thing running as best as possible first before changing the exhaust. Having Todd @ Guzzitech remap the ECU really helped wake up the motor and get rid of the flat spot. Power curve and response is much better. Now I am dialing it in slowly: valve clearances, throttle balance, etc. It gets slowly better and better. 

 

There is plenty to do on any used V11, here is a list of what I did before thinking about doing any exhaust work:

 

Did the transmission recall (at ProItalia, Glendale, CA)

Oil change, filter change

New air filter

New fuel filter (now installed correctly, not backwards like the stock one)

New manual petcock

Shortened fuel feed, cleaned up under tank breather hoses, etc. Added new breather hose.

Made new aluminum bracket for relays under seat

Cut down back fender

Changed original pawl spring

Replaced oil cooler brackets (which broke recently)

Ground down flexible grease gun connector to reach front U-joint. Greased front U-joint.

Found 90 degree needle point grease gun connector to reach back U-joint. Greased back U-joint.

Changed foot pegs to 1" lower ones from Knight Design. Adjust brake and shifter.

Changed clip ons to lower ones

Added 3/4 bikini fairing

Fiddled with suspension to get it where it felt good.

Remapped ECU per Todd @ Guzzitech

Did valves @ .006 INT and .008 EXT

Balanced throttles.

 

So, I want to drive the damn thing some before getting into exhaust. I want the ergos and the basic engineering (and some aesthetics) to be up to snuff before modifying.

 

But that's just me.

 

j.

[docc]

Would you say these reverse cone Mistrals have the db killers in or out?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCrXxFa1XQo&feature=player_detailpage

 That's ponti_33609's V11 - he hasn't been active on this forum for about a year and a half. Here's a post he made about the sound where he says he left the baffles in, but that video might have been made after he took them out. They are seemingly not visible in the pipe exit.

[morgy]

JB - thanks for the detailed reply. As it sits the bike has no issues whatsoever. All recalls have been done, shifter springs, relays, fluid changes, shaft service, tuning, etc. The bike needs nothing, I just want a different sound. I'll have to look into those grease fittings..

 

Docc - I thought you may have been able to tell from the audio whether or not the baffles were in, but I agree that they are not visible. Maybe hidden by shadow or covered in carbon.

Also - I don't have the bike in my possession to take a look...but, when ordering a crossover, do I need a sensor bung?

[mznyc]

The O2 sensors appearing in 03,or 04 so no need for them.My used Mistral X-over came with one and I'm just gonna plug it up.

[mznyc]

You clearly understand bikes J and know where money is spent best.Get the thing running first and fit to you.See way too many new owners looking to modify these beasts before they're running well in stock trim.

 

So, I want to drive the damn thing some before getting into exhaust. I want the ergos and the basic engineering (and some aesthetics) to be up to snuff before modifying.

 

But that's just me.

 

j.

[Tom M]

With the varying quality of the videos, though, it is really hard to tell. It also seems the the Stucchi crossover gives a deeper tone than the Mistral.

I realize mufflers and crossovers have been discussed ad infinitum, but typically the discussion is more performance oriented. Dyno charts are not that important to me, although the health of the motor is paramount. 

 

Thoughts?

I've run both the Mistral and the FBF (much like Stucchi) crossovers for years at a time and there is a difference in the sound as well as the performance.  Quite a while back there were pictures on this site of both crossovers cut in half.  They showed that there's a substantially larger crossover opening in the Stucchi than there is in the Mistral.  What this means is the Stucchi sends more of the left exhaust pulse down the right pipe than the Mistral does, and vice versa, which is why the Stucchi is the less restrictive of the two.  What it means for the exhaust note is the Stucchi sounds a little more muted than the Mistral.  When I first rode with the Mistral my bike sounded much more Harley-like to me.  Both will give a louder and sharper sound than the stock crossover.

[morgy]

JB & mz - I understand what you're saying. I agree starting with a good baseline and going from there is a good idea. Lucky for me I am already there. The bike runs perfectly in stock form and has had all the recalls and upgrades listed a few posts above, plus a complete service and new tires. I just know that I'll want to hear a little more of the motor from a nice exhaust. I don't know of any Guzzi shops near me that have a good reputation, and since the bike is currently being stored at a nice reputable shop I'd like to take advantage of knowing it will be properly tuned before it is shipped off to me. I am also under a bit of a time constraint as I can't just let it sit there infinitely while I make up my mind. Thanks, I do appreciate you taking the time to put together such a detailed list.

 

Tom - thanks to you as well. Your last post had a good bit of the kind of info I was looking for. I am leaning toward the Mistral reverse cone style. If I am understanding you correctly...it sounds as though these mufflers with the Stucchi may have a more mellow sound, and the same mufflers with the Mistral crossover may have a sharper/harsher sound. Would you agree?

[docc]

 

Hubert

 

Edit: just came over this link, basically the same, a tad friendlier to you guys maybe 

Interesting link. Written in 2005; I don't see any follow up on their website.

 

While also not a big dyno junky (maybe just because I don't have one), it's interesting to see 5 hp from a canister change, but not much difference from crossover change. Or even a 6 hp drop on the top end (from that link's charts).

 

It would make me confident to fit some cans that I like the looks of (oval, round, reverse megs, stainless, aluminum, carbon fiber) and wait on the crossover.

 

If you are going from the stock LaFranchoni twenty pound canisters, you will absolutely love whatever you choose. They'll sound, and feel, great. If you love the look of the reverse cone Mistral - go for it!

 

You can always fit a different crossover on later. The tuning isn't that critical as long as the CO is set. Have the dealer get that zeroed or 3.5%.

[SCole]

FYI  On my 2000 sport I have the Stucchi and just took the big ugly silver cans off and put on late model CF cans which are 4 inches shorter and 10 pounds lighter.  This weight reduction really makes the bike feel lighter around the garage for sure!  The sound surprisingly is deeper and quite nice.  I am surprised at the difference and very much less muted.  Turned out to be a good upgrade and looks better too.

[sp838]

SCole, your bike is looking better and better all the time! I got my pillion seat cover painted red, just fitted it last night. Really love it, thanks again for the inspiration. Going to paint my passenger peg brackets black too, love how that makes them disappear.

[Tom M]

Tom - thanks to you as well. Your last post had a good bit of the kind of info I was looking for. I am leaning toward the Mistral reverse cone style. If I am understanding you correctly...it sounds as though these mufflers with the Stucchi may have a more mellow sound, and the same mufflers with the Mistral crossover may have a sharper/harsher sound. Would you agree?

 

Yes, I believe the Stucchi crossover will give you a slightly mellower sound than the Mistral based on what I've observed on my bike.  FWIW I have the factory Ti cans. 

[mznyc]

The tuning isn't that critical as long as the CO is set. Have the dealer get that zeroed or 3.5%.

 

 

 
Hubert

Edit: just came over this link, basically the same, a tad friendlier to you guys maybe 

 

 

You can always fit a different crossover on later. The tuning isn't that critical as long as the CO is set. Have the dealer get that zeroed or 3.5%.

 

O OR 3.5% Docc? I'm planning on doing mine for the first time this year with the Diag software now that I have a gas analyzer but confused by that,...

Personally the reverse cones don't look right to me on the bike.But definitely subjective to the individual.The softer the material of the cans will offer a lower frequency.Ie; SS Harsh,Ti less harsh,Carbon softer.Material doesn't effect DB levels,design and the presence of DB killers will do that.

[SCole]

SCole, your bike is looking better and better all the time! I got my pillion seat cover painted red, just fitted it last night. Really love it, thanks again for the inspiration. Going to paint my passenger peg brackets black too, love how that makes them disappear.

Thanks  A few more tricks I am going for next will be a black oil pan to lessen the silver area, black engine guards and red valve covers in that order.  We will see what works or doesn't work?

[docc]

Sorry about that being so unclear. 3.5% is the parameter for the exhaust gas analyzer. The Guzzi software (ie: Axone) shows the CO on a +/- scale. My Sport was delivered at -27. When Andy zeroed it, the idle and general running improved fantastically. As I recall that coincided with the 3.5%.

[morgy]

I spoke to the dealer today...he will do as you suggested, docc, and zero the CO. Mufflers and crossover were delivered to him today so shouldn't be long and she will be on her way home. Should have her in plenty of time to make the Slimy Crud in Wisconsin.

 

Thanks again to all who shared their time and experience answering my questions. I'll let you know how things turn out!

 

Dave