Air filter alternatives

[Scud]

Being a curious sort, I pulled the K&N off my Scura after 6,000 miles of use.

 

 

It still looks nearly new, but I could tell that the leading edges of the pleats were a bit dirtier than trailing edges, so I spun it around 180 degrees.

 

Interestingly, K&N recommends inspecting it after 25,000 miles if used in the factory airbox - and claims some go 50,000 between cleanings - pics here:  http://www.knfilters.com/cleaning.htm

 

Tank removal - I use a simple siphon to get the gas out when I'm ready, rather than trying to run it low (which still leaves pretty close to a gallon in the tank)

[PDoz]

Scud, doesn't it worry you that the filter looks nearly new after 6K ? I guess it might be less dusty where you ride ( I live on a gravel road) , but I get my stock filters cleaned at about those intervals and there is LOTS of dust they've caught!

 

Ps I have a freind who cleans paper filters for the mining industry, although the stock filter is almost cheap enough to just replace as needed.

[Scud]

There's certainly some dirt and debris in the filter, just not enough to bother cleaning it yet. You can see in the picture of the filter above that the left looks dirtier than the right - that's because of the angle of camera. On the left you see the side of the pleats that face the intake.

 

It's only been in there 6 months or so. So, if by worry you mean you're concerned that the dirt has slipped by the filter. No, I'm not worried about that. It's been fairly wet this year and all my rides have been on asphalt - no dust storms either. 

 

That being said - when I got my Husky 450, the PO had a K&N on it (he mostly rode it on the street). I ditched that immediately for standard foam filters - the Husky gets dirty. I assume you're running foam filters on that lovely 640 adv. They stay clean when you're riding in the snow, right? Like in your profile pic. I love snow-rides...

 

[PDoz]

Yeah, no worries with dusting a filter in the snow - but you've still got to get up there! It's about an hour of loose steep rocky trail between home and the white slippery sand....so the ktm gets foam filters!

[Camn]

Being a newbie here in relation to many others (6 years with a Guzzi)... one of the first things that I did to my first one (Cali) was to cut off the “snorkels” and install a K&N CG-9002 air filter. After that… the majority of what I have read over many Guzzi forums, other reports and also on a Aprilia (AF1) forum (my son has a RSV 1000R CER) => we are now "testing" on both bikes 100% original set up. Paper filters, all parts there, as they should be. If Meinolf would post his findings (measured lambda values) about the “snorkels” on a V11 many readers would be surprised, I assume.

[Scud]

K&N vs. paper seems to be a bit polarizing. On my Scura, I removed (but no cutting) the rubber snorkels and installed the same K&N you referenced. There's lots of "bad press" for K&N, but then there are people such as Docc, who are pushing 100,000 miles with K&N filters.

 

On my Lemans, I got rid of the PO's K&N pods and reinstalled the factory airbox without snorkels, and with a paper filter - mostly because I had a new paper filter and was too cheap to buy another K&N.

 

I'd be interested to see the data about the snorkels. Intuitively, it seems that they can only be a hindrance. But that's why people conduct experiments - so we don't have to rely on intuition.

[docc]

The K&N has been a worry at times, though I do clean and recondition it once yearly religiously.

 

By "religiously" means I burn incense, use incantations (blues music), and drink good beer. 

 

It's worked so far, but I'm reluctant to leave out any of the steps . . . 

[Camn]

clean and recondition / incantations (blues music)

I found this to be a good way to service the K&N filter also . One significant thing is I guess for what purpose you want to optimize you Guzzi. For track, for all around use, for long distance economy etc. I remember P.Roper mentioning that since the same (paper in this case) filter is used in much more powerful bikes, why shouldn't it work on Guzzis. On our case the V11 is in the "powerful end", though. Here's a quote from him(Grisoghetto): "Aftermarket air filters are almost universally awful.If you want to waste some money and trash your engine there are few better ways.Oh, you could add an O2 sensor fooler I suppose and one of those washable oil filters if you want to complete the full trifecta of awful."

 

Some examples:

GU30113600: 1100Sport, Bellagio, California 1100 (94-11), Centauro, Daytona, Quota, V11.

 

AP8104211: Breva 850 (06-07), Breva 1100 (05-07), Breva 1200 (07), Sport 1200 (06-11), Norge 1200 (06-14), MGS-01 Corsa (04-07). Aprilia RSV 1000 (99-03), Tuono 1000 (02-05).

 

AP8104329: Stelvio 1200 (08-15), Griso 850 (06-07), Griso 1100 (05-08), Griso 1200 (07-15), California 1400 (13-15). Aprilia Tuono (06-15), RSV 1000 (04-08), RSV4 R (11-14).

[PDoz]

Scud, here's some info on the snorkel removal

 

http://www.bikeboy.org/v11sport.html

[Scud]

Thanks PD. According to those data (and from a Scura... ) removing the snorkels has a minuscule benefit in HP and torque - robbing a tiny amount of HP and torque between 2,000 and 2,500 RPMs - and giving it back between 5,000 and 6,500 (my favorite spot). A snorkelectomy also adds 4 mental horsepower (I made that up) by increasing intake noise. Surprisingly, if I am interpreting these data correctly, removing the snorkels takes away a 1/2-second of lag time from a 45 km/hr, 4th gear roll-on and somehow makes the bike quicker to begin accelerating.

[docc]

Scud, here's some info on the snorkel removal

 

http://www.bikeboy.org/v11sport.html

There was also some great data on expanding the mouths of the stock airbox intakes with some excellent results. I can't find it now . . . anyone have that link?

 

EDIT/ 08 November 2016:

 

Original post by PhilA / 19 September 2006:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18909&p=100986

 

The thread on my subsequent, risqué intake modification:

 

"aria! stock air box" : http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19239&hl=aria

[Camn]

expanding the mouths of the stock airbag intakes with some excellent results

I wonder why did Guzzi stop using the "Ram-Air" air intake which they had on the previous model, Sport1100? The motor is not so much different? They could have just shaped the suction pipe end differently? Instead the suction tube was fitted with a snorkel. One suggestion I read was that maybe the V11 system is a "Helmholz resonator"...

[docc]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz_resonance

 

That is fascinating science. I had thought the turn-down snorkels were simply to reduce intake noise for regulation concerns. 

 

Now, I simply must find the write-up on increasing the bell mouths with heat and a glass bottle.

 

Personally, I would be concerned about using the correct glass bottle . . . 

[docc]

Here it is: Posted in September , 2006, by Phil A who had done the work on a V10:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18909&p=100986

 

And Phil A's follow post later in the same thread (Paper Filters & Airbox Lid Mod in "How To . . ." originally posted by Greg Field):

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18909&p=101119

[PDoz]

Getting even further off track, I really question if all these " performance" mods make us go any faster?

 

As an example, yesterday I went for a wander along my favourite section of technical road , but with my stock pipes back on. ( they look better) . The motor FELT gutless - slow to respond to throttle changes and very little grunt below 6K. But I was quicker! Mostly because I was working at keeping the revs between 6 and 8 K, so tap dancing on the gear lever....I'd might as well be riding a jap multi! If you look at most of the dyno graphs , the big gains are in low to mid revs. A more lazy, relaxed ride? But the stock pipes were easier to ride with BECAUSE it was gutless down low. So I'm going back to my madaz pipes because they're more fun........I may be slower and having to concentrate on smoother throttle use.....but it's fun