Charging Issues With Electrosport ESR510

[Kiwi_Roy]

Some ESR 510s come without a fuse (at least mine did) but I wouldn't recommend that, the battery can easily supply 200 Amps if the RR ever shorted.

 

The melted holder you found is the result of loose connections not too much current, I like to find easy faults like that.

I don't think many appreciate how much current the alternator puts out, the average is not too high but the peaks are over 30 Amps.

Just replace it with another from an auto parts store, find one with a good tight grip on the fuse.

 

You're right the charge light should have warned you. Test the lamp by shorting the white wire to chassis with the key ON.

The Charge light has 12 Volts on one side and the RR connects the other side to chassis. I assume it shorts to the green wire in the ESR510.

 

I'm confident that once you replace the fuse holder it will charge fine.

 

Just one other thing with the ESR510, it has a constant draw of about 0.3 milliamps so it's a good idea to pull the fuse if you store the bike over winter. (That's the reason why Guzzi have the OEM regulator downstream of the headlight relay but let's not go there)

[moto fugazzi]

Just tested the charge light, and it turned on when the white wire was connected to the chassis. I did this with and without the stock RR connected. I then  started the bike (without the white wire to chassis), and no charge light at all. The battery is fully charged now, but I thought the light would still turn on when the ignition is on.

 

Here's my theory with the ESR510. The warning light didn't turn on because the RR was still trying to charge the bike, and because it was still trying to charge, it kept melting the fuse holder. Make sense?

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

Just tested the charge light, and it turned on when the white wire was connected to the chassis. I did this with and without the stock RR connected. I then  started the bike (without the white wire to chassis), and no charge light at all. The battery is fully charged now, but I thought the light would still turn on when the ignition is on.

 

Here's my theory with the ESR510. The warning light didn't turn on because the RR was still trying to charge the bike, and because it was still trying to charge, it kept melting the fuse holder. Make sense?

Ken

Ok so we know the light works so it should work with either regulator.

The OEM Ducati Energia needs 12 Volts on the Black wire, this turns on the transistor that shorts the white wire to the chassis. It goes without saying the regulator case must also be connected to the chassis. (a short wire to a timing cover screw is what I always recommend)

I have seen one regulator where this part of the regulator was not functioning but it doesn't stop it charging as it's a separate function. I concluded at some time the idiot light had shorted out overloading the circuit.

 

No, the fuse holder should never melt, that was caused by a bad connection to the fuse pins, It's also a common problem with the 30 Amp fuse in the bikes own fusebox. The alternator puts out high current pulses, 14 x for ever revolution. I have never actually measured them but I wouldn't be suprised to see 40 Amps so it's quite unforgiving on a bad joint. 

My guess is the holder was never designed with the high current spikes in mind.

 

Electrosport need your feedback, send them the picture. I'm sure their engineers will jump all over their factory in China.

(I spend a lot of time in China, someone saved a cent buying those cheap fuseholders)

 

I have noticed that the light on my ESR10 stays on at higher revs than a stock regulator, it just functions differently.

[luhbo]

There's no need to care about spikes I'd say. They're just spikes. Melting things needs heat and time.

 

Hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hubert

             Perhaps spikes was the wrong term to use, I used pulses earlier.

14 x every revolution the Voltage starts at zero, when it reaches about 13 Volts the current goes from zero and increases rapidly to form a sine wave

so you end up with a lot of half wave pulses joined by flat spots.

To get an average equaling the alternator output the sine wave peaks have to be much higher to fill in the valleys as it were.

 

Heat is equal to the current squared x resistance

Example, suppose your fuse base has 0.1 Ohms resistance.

5A x 5 x 0.1 Ohm is 2.5 Watts of heat

10 x 10 x 0.1 = 10 Watts of heat or 4 x as much for double the current

40 x 40 x 0.1 = 160 Watts of heat

The effect of heat is accumulative, the joint will get worse and worse until most of the alternators power is being dissipated in heat. A bad joint also places more stress on the alternator as many a Goldwing owner will tell you.

Take a look at the pictures in posts 16 & 28 and tell me how many Watts it took to do that

[moto fugazzi]

I've been in touch with Elecreosport, and we'll see how this pans out.

 

I do have 12V at the black wire, and the white wire turns on the light when I short it to ground. The circuit inside the Energia for this function must be bad. I also have 2 grounds on the Energia (1 to the battery), and the PO had one ground on it already.

 

So when the fuse blows, it would appear that the ESR510 still passes current. If this is the case, shouldn't the fuse be closer to the R/R instead the battery as the fuse was more melted on the R/R side. I did replace the fuse holder last night, but have not tried it out as of yet.

Ken

[luhbo]

Ok, so it's pulses. Just pulses. No spikes, pulses.That makes no difference. You know that it's the average that counts. There's no need for statements like the one below:

 

 

.. My guess is the holder was never designed with the high current spikes in mind...

[The Monkey]

My ESR510 just packed it in too. Bound to be due to a connection somewhere.

 

Going to try the Enduralast regulator (like the 510 it hooks direct to battery, I do have a 30 amp fuse in that line) from EME in Denver. They seem to have components and complete kits for the Energia system to replace all charge components on Guzzi and BMW.

 

Havent had much time for the bike in the last 2 years, this is the only reason the 510 lasted so long. My regs last about 2000-2500km.  I must have a weak connection somewhere that is stressing the reg. Time to replace all bullet connectors associated with the charge system and go thru the complete Kiwi Roy and Luhbo tests.

 

I am also going to replace Chinese/Taiwan Yuasa battery with an Odyssey at the same time. Never had any life out of the Asian batteries. Not since the Japanese ones anyway and those days are long gone evidently. Looking at the Forum here, that sounds like the way to go.

 

Thanks again to you electrically oriented members for keeping things bright

[moto fugazzi]

My ESR510 just packed it in too. Bound to be due to a connection somewhere.

 

Going to try the Enduralast regulator (like the 510 it hooks direct to battery, I do have a 30 amp fuse in that line) from EME in Denver. They seem to have components and complete kits for the Energia system to replace all charge components on Guzzi and BMW.

 

Havent had much time for the bike in the last 2 years, this is the only reason the 510 lasted so long. My regs last about 2000-2500km.  I must have a weak connection somewhere that is stressing the reg. Time to replace all bullet connectors associated with the charge system and go thru the complete Kiwi Roy and Luhbo tests.

 

I am also going to replace Chinese/Taiwan Yuasa battery with an Odyssey at the same time. Never had any life out of the Asian batteries. Not since the Japanese ones anyway and those days are long gone evidently. Looking at the Forum here, that sounds like the way to go.

 

Thanks again to you electrically oriented members for keeping things bright

Guzzitech also carries these. Check this out BEFORE you buy an  Odyssey. Apparently they don't work well together.

http://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/emevr-new/

[moto fugazzi]

I connected the ESR510 today, and the charge light went on with the fuse installed. The light turned off when I removed the fuse.

 

Anybody else want to check their ESR510 for me, and see if it does the same thing?

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

It shouldn't come on unless the key is ON

 

OOPPS, have they changed the schematic, shouldn't it show the ignition switch between lamp and battery +

 

They added a note about it on LH side of fitting instructions

 

I think it will still be ok with the Charge Warning Light switched by original wiring.

[moto fugazzi]

Yes, light only comes on with the ignition ON.

 

Yes, I just noticed the note that no black wire is necessary for the charge warning light. Then why do they have the 2 prong connector that matches to the factory wiring? I'll just try the white wire and see if that makes a difference, but I doubt it will.

 

Schematic is here: http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/fitting-instructions/electrosport-esr510-fitting-instructions.pdf

 

I'm still curious if anybody else's warning light turns off with the fuse removed.

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

Ok, ok, I tried mine the light goes out if I pull the fuse with the key on,

The red wire supplies the Voltage the regulator needs to work and turn the transistor on to short the light to ground.

Im sure Electrosport missed the ignition switch in their diagram (between battery+ and the light)

 

I also measured the current the regulator draws even with the key OFF  3.8 milliamps

So it will flatten a 15 AH battery in  15 / 0.0038 hours  or 164 days

of course if the battery is only half charges to begin with 80 days

So pull the fuse over winter 

[moto fugazzi]

After a ton of emails with Electrosport, if the fuse blows, or the red wire becomes disconnected, the charge light will NOT come on. That info would have been nice to know before hand. Apparently the ESR515 is a direct OEM type replacement for the Energia, but they are out of stock on those.

 

I wonder if the ESR515 works the same way as the Energia with the reference wire, or if it works differently.

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

I'm pretty sure the ESR515 is a direct replacement for the OEM Ducati Energia

So it will be effected by the same wiring issues. You might as well get a Ducati Energia

If you blew the fuse on the OEM I think the light would still work because the sensing black wire is separate i.e. the black wire provides the power for electronics from the headlight circuit. If however the headlight fuse blew, you would never know for 2 reasons

1) the 12V for the lamp is missing

2) there is no power to fire the transistor

If you really want to monitor the charging, get a Voltmeter like my old Cali II has.