V11 Le Mans (2005) Engine Oil

[Retroman]

Hi,

 

I have owned a V11 Le Mans for a few months now and have fitted the factory race pack and a mistral crossover. As a  precautionary measure to help the engine I am about to drain the oil and drop the sump to insert a baffle/anti surge plate in it. I understand that the recommended oil, Agip Racing 5w-40 is no longer available and was wondering what other members are using as a alternative that won't ruin the engine. I can find that Gulf provide a fully ester synthetic described as racing 5w-40 but the other alternatives seem to be 10w-40 viscosity. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Nigel.

[docc]

Seems that, across the board, vehicle manufacturers have steadily decreased viscosity recommendations even though their engines have not changed. Many would say it is to eek out the smallest improvement in their Corporate Average Fuel Economy measures by minimizing friction. That strategy may be cross purposes with the long term, high mileage owner.

 

Surely, a quality 10W40 would be fine, but avoid friction modifiers. Not sure how that is labeled in the UK, but "Energy Conserving" would be un-good for the Guzzi cylinder walls. Viscosities of 15W40 upward through 20W50 tend to not have these modifiers.

 

The flat tappet cam set-up certainly benefits from a higher zinc/phosphorous content (ZDDP) not so compatible with catalytic converters.

 

20W50 SG synthetic seems perfect for the V11, but I do live in a hot climate and the bike is not stored or started in low temperatures which might have you running a thinner base oil. A 5 weight base oil in such a big, old donk of a motor seems a bad idea.

 

Fantastic (lengthy, technical) article at Richard's Corvair by Richard Widman. You can always skip to the end of it and look at a list of some of his recommendations. I believe the similarities in the engines we are considering make his opinions quite appropriate.

 

We haven't had a nice oil thread in a good long time, so I figured I'd go for the Big Whammy Post straight away!

[68C]

I can understand not using oil with friction modifiers in bikes with wet clutches but cannot see that would be a problem with our dry clutch  bikes.

[rossi46]

retroman give Nigel/baldrick a ring at corsa Italia, I spoke to him recently regarding my recent purchase and he recommended a rock oil but I forget which one! or e-mail opie oils, UK based, they have been very  helpful in the past- and don't forget to take some nice pics of your roper plate install-its next on my to do list! did you get it from gutsibits?  

[GuzziMoto]

I can understand not using oil with friction modifiers in bikes with wet clutches but cannot see that would be a problem with our dry clutch  bikes.

Yea, I don't follow the logic there but it is not an uncommon opinion. Just not my opinion. However, as I use a 20w/50 oil in mine that is not an issue. I do not ride in the cold anymore. Those days are gone.

[Keith Foster]

The last 5-7 years I've used a Valvoline 20w-50 motorcycle specific oil. It readily available at most of the large US auto store chains. I chose it based on an Amsoil article I read comparing their oils to a group of several other oils. It had higher levels of zinc than most others in the comparison, was easily sourced and was reasonably priced. I run it in the neighborhood of 40K miles, she might use 1/2 a quart between changes and valve adjustments are entirely occasional.

[Camn]

850-1100-1200 SERIES => V11

Oils_Motoguzzi_technical_note_010-2006.pdf

[GuzziMoto]

The newer CARC motor (850-1100-1200) is not the V11 motor. While they have much in common they are not the same motor.

That said their oils requirements are not all that different. But a 10w/60 oil, while being the recommended oil for the newer CARC motors (I don't think it was the recommended oil until after it first came out), was not the recommended oil in 2001 when my wife's V11 was made. The recommended oil viscosity at that time was based on the temp range it was likely to be operated in. The recommended oil was either a 10w/30, 10w/40, 15w/40, 15w/50, 20w40, or 20w50. The 20w oils were suitable as long as you did not operate it below freezing.

What gets lost in a thread like this is that the 20w/50 or 10w/60 rating of the oil is merely a rating of the oils viscosity. It does not reflect the oils lubrication properties, its ability to resist breakdown from heat or mechanical shearing, or the oils quality.

One other aspect of a multi-weight oil is that the first number is the weight of the base oil. An oil with a thinner base oil would be more prone to breakdown and have further to breakdown than an oil with a heavier base oil.

So often people seem to think that the weight of the oil is the criteria that matters most. The weight is something that should be chosen based on the temps and intended usage of the motor oil (a motor oil used in below freezing temps or in heavy traffic would need to be different then one not used below freezing and not often ridden in heavy traffic). A more important measure of the oil chosen would be the API rating, zinc levels, and overall quality of the oil chosen.

I personally use an oil that is SG rated and has excellent zinc levels. Beyond that, oil discussions can quickly move beyond actual facts to myths, preferences, and hype.

[Camn]

I am happy with my oils and do not have any personal recommendations. Here is one "selection robot" (Guzzi: "specs refer to Agib branded products"): 

 

http://eni-ita.lubricantadvisor.com/Advice.aspx?lang=eng&type=954f0940624f1d950b784a0852e063d5

[docc]

My recollection is that I gleaned the concern for "energy conserving" friction modifiers adversely affecting the rings seating in the bores from generous posts made here by Pete Roper. I wouldn't want to misrepresent what he has said, but that is my recollection.

 

Keith, I wonder if you mean running your Valvoline 4K (4,000) miles not "40K" (40,000) miles ?

[luhbo]

Ring seating is a delicate topic. Some even recommend to mount them and the pistons without oil at all to allow proper seating during the first 1 or two minutes they see action. Hopefully these aren't the last ones, too^^

Anyway, after a certain time any seating should have taken place and give room for friction modified oils, at least if this is the only reason that speaks against them.

 

Hubert

[gstallons]

Wooooo ! Dry ? I would put oil in the cylinder bore upon assembly with an oil saturated paper towel .

[AndyH]

My recollection is that I gleaned the concern for "energy conserving" friction modifiers adversely affecting the rings seating in the bores from generous posts made here by Pete Roper. I wouldn't want to misrepresent what he has said, but that is my recollection.

 

Keith, I wonder if you mean running your Valvoline 4K (4,000) miles not "40K" (40,000) miles ?

Yeah, I did a double take too... think he means he stuck to that brand for that long but did change betweentimes

Images of stinky black sludge abound: had an old Honda CD175 like that once with a rounded off sump plug - just ran and ran...

[luhbo]

Wooooo ! Dry ? ...

 

Yup, then start the engine and hold it immediately at speed/under pressure for a while. Otherwise you wont get seated new rings in NICASIL, NIGUSIL or whatever else of bone hard and slick surface actually is on the market.

Haven't I mentioned it: running in engines is a somewhat religious thing. And not one of the flowery lala ones

 

Hubert

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Best way to break in new rings is to warm the bike up .... drive it at full throttle through the gears (ooops .... where can I do that?) .... until almost topped out ..... then let it coast down to a stop and repeat. Two runs should be enough. A dyno works well for not getting tickets ....!!