Origins of the Moto Guzzi V-twin

[docc]

3x3 Mulo engine designed by Ing. Antonio Micucci: (sorry for such a small image)

[docc]

Very interesting that Falloon's account of Ivar de Gier's interview with Carcano puts the first V-twin fan-forced motor in the realm of the engineer hot-rodding his personal Topolino! Only later was it submitted to Fiat (and refused). I had always thought it was prepared for a specification; but, apparently not.

 

Much more romantic (and more correct), I think, to say that the V700 (and therefor the V11) had its beginnings in the chief engineer's personal performance car. A sleeper Fiat 500 . . . what fun!

 

 

[docc]

This is a beautiful interview with Ing. Carcano in 2002 by Luca Angerame for AnimaGuzzista.

 

He speaks of building the first V-engine for his Fiat 500, "The car was very brilliant, pleasant and funny; it had a very good acceleration and the maximum speed was almost too much:140 Km/h for such a small car!"

 

And also of the need for the (new) police motorcycle to have the stature of a Norman horse.

 

Very interesting that the original V700 motorcycle was not just born of "form follows function ," but was meant to have PRESENCE.  No less so from the fantastic appearance of those imposing cylinders showing striking power and alertness from any angle.

[docc]

I received my 1986 copy of Mick Walker's Moto Guzzi Twins today. It is Walker's third published work (the first two were on Ducati). I also have works of his from 1992 and 1999. I was curious whether he became more emphatic about the tractor connection over time, but the language in the 1999 text is identical to that of 1986. Having reviewed also the works of Mario Colombo (1977, translated to English in 1990), Ian Falloon, David Styles, and Greg Field, I would be comfortable holding the opinion that it is, in fact, Mick Walker who started this whole misconception that the Guzzi motorcycle V-twin started in a tractor. It becomes a story line that he repeated in print for at least thirteen years, and was repeated by others, so as to be repeated today as if it were true and well founded.

 

Walker was certainly prolific in his writing career with some 130 titles on bikes from all over the world. Yet, Walker was patently wrong that the 3x3 Mule engine was designed by Carcano and that "The [motorcycle] V-twin power unit itself started life as the engine for the  . . . three-wheeler . . . "

 

Colombo published the earliest work I can find on the Guzzi motorcycle V-twin (1977) and clearly states "the [motorcycle] engine was a completely different unit . . ." than the previous car and 3x3 units. This is certainly corroborated by interviews with the engineers themselves.

 

I suppose it might be beating a dead horse, but even recently a well respected US motorcycle magazine printed another elaborate version of the "tractor connection" in an otherwise nice article about a very interesting Guzzi. Anyone using Walker as a reference is going to keep repeating the same misinformation.

 

So, write your editors! Carry the torch!  Beat the drum!  :mg:

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

Mr. Falloon explains the origins as the motor designed by Ing Carcano in the late 50's as first a motor for his Fiat and that engine being the inspiration for the V700 motore.

 

I say we tie them all at the ankles .... hang them upside down over a clothes line and let them sort it out!

[waspp]

The  Victoria Bergmeister was built in the late 40's or early 50's? I think. Did that bike have any influence on the Guzzi V?

[docc]

[AndyH]

Handsome bike too...

[luhbo]

.... early 50's? I think. Did that bike have any influence on the Guzzi V?

 

I wish it had. Sadly miss a kick starter ever since. Motorcycle is kick start, like with old planes when the engines were started by hand.

 

Besides that, my father had no good word for the Bergmeister. It was no match for the TWN 350 Boss.

 

 

 

Hubert

[dangerous]

Phelon and Moore of Panther fame did a guzzi style V twin in the late twenties /early thirties :the Panthette

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:P%26M_Panthette_250_cc_1927.jpg

Very advanced but also had some flaws like leaf valve springs...sadly got killed by the depression.

now thats kn cool man, heres a few I have found over the years

[AndyH]

Looks like Honda really wanted to give it a go... Good finds, dangerous!

[dangerous]

Looks like Honda really wanted to give it a go... Good finds, dangerous!

they did and they did it well... yes those two are prototypes but they did lead to the CX500 of which I have had 5 or so including the turbo, emagine if Honda stuck with it, a CX 1400 classic

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

 

Phelon and Moore of Panther fame did a guzzi style V twin in the late twenties /early thirties :the Panthette

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:P%26M_Panthette_250_cc_1927.jpg

Very advanced but also had some flaws like leaf valve springs...sadly got killed by the depression.

now thats kn cool man, heres a few I have found over the years

 

 

What is the third bike in that lineup?

[stefano]

  i believe the 3rd bike is a lilac\marusho  250, if i remember correctly, lilac made the smaller ones & marusho the larger bikes. others will know more.

 in my youth i rode a lilac 250 & thought it was so much slower than my '61 honda cb92 125. youth...... 

[dangerous]

yeah Marusho motor Co, from the 'land of the rising sun' manufactured motorcycles from 1948 to 1967

Tadashi Itō started Marusho in Hamamatsu, Japan, in 1948 after studying business management with Soichiro Honda. The company produced shaft driven models like the Lilac, and showcased its technical prowess to the world in the Mount Asama Volcano Race, competing well against the likes of Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki. Company founder Tadashi Itō died in 2005 at the age of 92.

Marusho Lilac V-twin

Marusho Lilac flat-twin