V11 Geometry changes

[Lucky Phil]

5 hours ago, docc said:

On 21 June, 2020, @Lucky Phil said ( in LeMans 1000 16" Front Wheel):

"Info there docc. Looks like my bike is the twitchiest of them all:)

Ciao "

Does this mean you actually have a set of the earliest, steeper triples, Phil? What is the build date on that frame, again?

My build date is Feb 2000 and my frame number is well within the previously quoted number.

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, LowRyter said:

1/2 degree?  That really seems minuscule.  I'm surprised that production tolerances are that close.  Could even a little debris in the fork clamp could count for that?  

Personally I doubt they are knowing the Italians.

Ciao

[docc]

1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:

My build date is Feb 2000 and my frame number is well within the previously quoted number.

Ciao

Early or later triple clamps?

("Does it read "01493100" or "01493130" (both early) or "501452" (most late)?" )

[Lucky Phil]

On 6/22/2020 at 11:50 AM, docc said:

Early or later triple clamps?

("Does it read "01493100" or "01493130" (both early) or "501452" (most late)?" )

Mine read 501452 in the lower clamp casting with 0050 stamped in ink on the lower edge.  I'm not sure these numbers mean anything apart from casting numbers as they're not like Guzzi part numbers. The RM's also had black triple clamps so their part numbers would be different to other red framed or should I say short framed bikes with silver triple clamps.

Ciao

[gstallons]

7 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Personally I doubt they are knowing the Italians.

Ciao

I don't think you could get the same amount of debris in the same place on the triple clamps / fork legs .

[docc]

Cross linking to this very interesting discussion about the difference in offset  (45mm --> 40mm) between the very earliest Sport triple clamps (01493xxx) and the 5014xx series used throughout the rest of the V11 range.

Perhaps the offset is the true nature of the change rather than the "1/2º" we've been chasing?

 

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, docc said:

Cross linking to this very interesting discussion about the difference in offset  (45mm --> 40mm) between the very earliest Sport triple clamps (01493xxx) and the 5014xx series used throughout the rest of the V11 range.

Perhaps the offset is the true nature of the change rather than the "1/2º" we've been chasing?

 

Thats what I'm thinking docc. The 2 upper clams I have, one a late model and the other my supposed "canted" one on my bike look identical dimensionally.

Ciao 

[docc]

33 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Thats what I'm thinking docc. The 2 upper clams I have, one a late model and the other my supposed "canted" one on my bike look identical dimensionally.

Ciao 

You would have to compare to the earlier-yet, 01493xxx clamps to see if those are different (beyond the offset).

[Lucky Phil]

38 minutes ago, docc said:

You would have to compare to the earlier-yet, 01493xxx clamps to see if those are different (beyond the offset).

No to the later type 501452's. Those are the ones that are supposedly "canted". The earlier ones would be parallel same as the late one I have from Scud.

Ciao

[docc]

14 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

No to the later type 501452's. Those are the ones that are supposedly "canted". The earlier ones would be parallel same as the late one I have from Scud.

Ciao

That is not my interpretation. My understanding is the 01493xxx are "different" from all of the later 5014xx clamps.

Different how? That is what we are seeking to derive . . .

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, docc said:

That is not my interpretation. My understanding is the 01493xxx are "different" from all of the later 5014xx clamps.

Different how? That is what we are seeking to derive . . .

My interpretation was docc one of the following happened.

Option 1 the earlier 01493xx clamps were 40mm offset parallel bores and the later 5014xx were 40mm offset and "canted" by 1/2 degree.

Option 2 the later 5014xx weren't actually "canted" but in fact just had 5mm reduced offset from 45mm (maybe ex 1100ie Sport triples used initially) to 40mm offset with parallel bores.

Option 3 The very first clamps used were 1100ie Sport ones with 45mm offset. Then they changed them to 40mm offset parallel bores as per option 2. Then they changed those 40mm offset triples to "canted bores" Then post short frame bikes (long frame bikes) went back to "non canted" parallel bore forks with the same 40mm offset.   

I think option 2 is most likely. What's your interpretation, thoughts.

Ciao

[docc]

Agreed. After all this time, Option 2 is looking best supported by all we can discern.

"Cuirouser and curiouser" these V11 . . .      

[Lucky Phil]

1 minute ago, docc said:

Agreed. After all this time, Option 2 is looking best supported by all we can discern.

"Cuirouser and curiouser" these V11 . . .      

I'll know for sure when I fit up the new forks and can measure my "possibly 1/2 deg canted" triples.

Ciao

[docc]

34 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

I'll know for sure when I fit up the new forks and can measure my "possibly 1/2 deg canted" triples.

Ciao

Unless you have those earliest 01493xxx clamps to assess, there will be no difference between the 5014xx clamps (if I am understanding this correctly).

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, docc said:

Unless you have those earliest 01493xxx clamps to assess, there will be no difference between the 5014xx clamps (if I am understanding this correctly).

Yes in offset at least, no difference. In "cant" it depends if you believe the past information that suggests the later 5014xx clamps were canted and then "not canted" after the short frame bikes.

Ciao