'Model Year' month cuttoff for Moto Guzzi factory?

[chamberlin]

In talking with the seller of the very nice 2004 sport naked on eBay that is the twin brother to my bike, I have arrived at a very simple question, which may be common knowledge...

 

My bike was the first V11 built in the model year 2003. Serial number 3M111111. Manufacture date is February 2003.

 

The eBay bike is the 55th bike built for model year 2004. Serial number 4M111155. Manufacture date is September 2003.

 

Does anyone know what month Moto Guzzi considers the first month of the new model year? Does this month change from year to year?

 

We can't really determine anything from my bike's production date, since they could start building the new bikes at any date. However, knowing that both of these bikes were built in 2003, but cover two official model years as described by the VIN numbers, we now know that the model year transition is sometime between February and September! LOL! Unfortunately, because the V11 is such a low volume product, and the M.G. VIN number serialization is haphazard at best, it is very difficult to say that this 55th bike of M.Y. 2004 is near the beginning date of the production run or not. Some companies probably build 55+ bikes in a single day! But in Moto Guzzi-land, I am sure 55 V11 bikes could represent a month or more of production time.

 

Any insight or conjecture is welcomed!

 

 

 

[PDoz]

Are you trying to work out when the 03 spec started, or when they got back from xmas celebrations, recovered from the hangover, finished off most of the last years bikes +/- ran out of frames from the previous year? ( they most likely started building with 03 bikes when they were still assembling on 02 frames, and chances are there were 02 framed bikes that rolled out of the factory after your 03 framed bike ....ths is italy we're talking about...)

 

For what it's worth, my bike is a 2M but has all the 2013 changes , was sold + registered as a 2014 ( april) ....

[Skeeve]

In talking with the seller of the very nice 2004 sport naked on eBay that is the twin brother to my bike, I have arrived at a very simple question, which may be common knowledge...

 

My bike was the first V11 built in the model year 2003. Serial number 3M111111. Manufacture date is February 2003.

 

The eBay bike is the 55th bike built for model year 2004. Serial number 4M111155. Manufacture date is September 2003.

 

Does anyone know what month Moto Guzzi considers the first month of the new model year? Does this month change from year to year?

 

We can't really determine anything from my bike's production date, since they could start building the new bikes at any date. However, knowing that both of these bikes were built in 2003, but cover two official model years as described by the VIN numbers, we now know that the model year transition is sometime between February and September! LOL! Unfortunately, because the V11 is such a low volume product, and the M.G. VIN number serialization is haphazard at best, it is very difficult to say that this 55th bike of M.Y. 2004 is near the beginning date of the production run or not. Some companies probably build 55+ bikes in a single day! But in Moto Guzzi-land, I am sure 55 V11 bikes could represent a month or more of production time.

 

Any insight or conjecture is welcomed!

 

Given that most of southern Europe seems to take the month of August off, I'm going to suggest that is the MY cutoff. Since the factory [at that time, at least] built bikes in batches, they probably built the 2003 V11s late [after switching over from Calis or what not] and the 2004 V11s early, directly after the hiatus, to save themselves from having to switch the production line again.

 

It's a working theory, at least.

[chamberlin]

Are you trying to work out when the 03 spec started, or when they got back from xmas celebrations, recovered from the hangover, finished off most of the last years bikes +/- ran out of frames from the previous year? ( they most likely started building with 03 bikes when they were still assembling on 02 frames, and chances are there were 02 framed bikes that rolled out of the factory after your 03 framed bike ....ths is italy we're talking about...)

 

For what it's worth, my bike is a 2M but has all the 2013 changes , was sold + registered as a 2014 ( april) ....

 

Well that sure puts a spin on things! a 2M bike, but with all the next generation modifications? Well sh^$*%t! I guess my bike isn't the true first '03+ featured bike! Do you mind posting some photos?

Yea, I guess I am trying to pin down both things...I assumed the '03 spec started with my frame, that would be February of 2003. I also would like to know if there is a fixed time period for the MY switch over, regardless of

feature set. This is getting more complicated the further I get down the Italian rabbit hole!

 

 

Given that most of southern Europe seems to take the month of August off, I'm going to suggest that is the MY cutoff. Since the factory [at that time, at least] built bikes in batches, they probably built the 2003 V11s late [after switching over from Calis or what not] and the 2004 V11s early, directly after the hiatus, to save themselves from having to switch the production line again.

 

It's a working theory, at least.

 

That does make a lot of sense, and does jive with the production of the 4M111155 bike I mentioned above (September '03 build month).  But I don't know if I can continue down this path, knowing that serial production at Mandello Lario isn't true serial production! Italians are so passionate about things, why not solid record keeping!!!! I am sure the Aprilia (then Piaggio) ownership changes around this time didn't help the matter....

[Skeeve]

 

Are you trying to work out when the 03 spec started, or when they got back from xmas celebrations, recovered from the hangover, finished off most of the last years bikes +/- ran out of frames from the previous year? ( they most likely started building with 03 bikes when they were still assembling on 02 frames, and chances are there were 02 framed bikes that rolled out of the factory after your 03 framed bike ....ths is italy we're talking about...)

 

For what it's worth, my bike is a 2M but has all the 2013 changes , was sold + registered as a 2014 ( april) ....

 

Well that sure puts a spin on things! a 2M bike, but with all the next generation modifications? Well sh^$*%t! I guess my bike isn't the true first '03+ featured bike! Do you mind posting some photos?

Yea, I guess I am trying to pin down both things...I assumed the '03 spec started with my frame, that would be February of 2003. I also would like to know if there is a fixed time period for the MY switch over, regardless of

feature set. This is getting more complicated the further I get down the Italian rabbit hole!

 

 

Given that most of southern Europe seems to take the month of August off, I'm going to suggest that is the MY cutoff. Since the factory [at that time, at least] built bikes in batches, they probably built the 2003 V11s late [after switching over from Calis or what not] and the 2004 V11s early, directly after the hiatus, to save themselves from having to switch the production line again.

 

It's a working theory, at least.

 

That does make a lot of sense, and does jive with the production of the 4M111155 bike I mentioned above (September '03 build month).  But I don't know if I can continue down this path, knowing that serial production at Mandello Lario isn't true serial production! Italians are so passionate about things, why not solid record keeping!!!! I am sure the Aprilia (then Piaggio) ownership changes around this time didn't help the matter....

 

Aprillia assumed ownership ~ '99; Piaggio ~ '05. The only thing going on at that time was Aprillia thrashing around trying to stave off bankruptcy after having spent too much $$ in MotoGP trying to compete with much larger companies like Honda, et al while their main income stream of scooter sales was being systematically taken over by China.

 

As for why Italians can't be passionate about bookkeeping, as I can say is that accounting isn't about artistic creation [when done correctly. "Creative accounting" has a long & storied history of getting its practitioners arrested and/or dead... ]

 

As for continuing down this path, I agree that it is a topic best left undisturbed!

[PDoz]

She's a late 2002 model with the 2003 bigger forks (rebound only), cross over, fuel pump in tank etc etc

[docc]

She's a late 2002 model with the 2003 bigger forks (rebound only), cross over, fuel pump in tank etc etc

Veglia gauges and chin pad tank?

[chamberlin]

She's a late 2002 model with the 2003 bigger forks (rebound only), cross over, fuel pump in tank etc etc

Thanks for posting the pic PDoz! Another question: what was the production date on the plaque?

 

Docc, don't think it can have the internal fuel pump and the chin pad together? They are completely different tanks...but maybe? Never heard of anyone converting their old style tank to internal fuel pump (to mitigate the vapor lock issue...). But I am curious about the Veglias and the wheelbase/tire width too! Flaky matte engine paint I suspect? Although your bike looks perfect, and my paint has become dull too.

[chamberlin]

Aprillia assumed ownership ~ '99; Piaggio ~ '05. The only thing going on at that time was Aprillia thrashing around trying to stave off bankruptcy after having spent too much $$ in MotoGP trying to compete with much larger companies like Honda, et al while their main income stream of scooter sales was being systematically taken over by China.

 

As for why Italians can't be passionate about bookkeeping, as I can say is that accounting isn't about artistic creation [when done correctly. "Creative accounting" has a long & storied history of getting its practitioners arrested and/or dead... ]

 

As for continuing down this path, I agree that it is a topic best left undisturbed!

A couple more big blows like this and I will turn back and forget all about the topic! But I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel just yet! Hmmm I thought the Aprilia thing happened well into the V11's life cycle, not so early on. I'll have to go read my Guzzi books instead of just admiring them on the coffee table!

[docc]

 

She's a late 2002 model with the 2003 bigger forks (rebound only), cross over, fuel pump in tank etc etc

Thanks for posting the pic PDoz! Another question: what was the production date on the plaque?

 

Docc, don't think it can have the internal fuel pump and the chin pad together? They are completely different tanks...but maybe? Never heard of anyone converting their old style tank to internal fuel pump (to mitigate the vapor lock issue...). But I am curious about the Veglias and the wheelbase/tire width too! Flaky matte engine paint I suspect? Although your bike looks perfect, and my paint has become dull too.

 

Frames and wheel widths are the same 2002 on. True that chin pad tanks (external pump) are early through 2002 along with the white face Veglia. I was curious to see if  PDoz' "late '02" still had any '02 features or really has complete 2003 kit including the satin (not fuzzy) engine paint.

[PDoz]

Black guages ( not vagueliar) , no chin pad on the tank, wider wheels and wider front axle, non flaky engine paint, build date 7/2002 .

 

If it's any consolation, it had the gearbox recall work done so presumably came with the bad gearbox pawl? I bought it as part of a deceased estate, so am relying on the maintenance records. It had 5000 km on the clock, which explains the condition in the picture.

[docc]

Where are you guys seeing the build date?

[chamberlin]

Wow. 7/2002....that just blows my mind.

 

That's a full 7 months before my bike was built, to which I *thought* was the first bike made with those features.

 

Docc, the build date is located on the mfg plaque on the left side of the head tube.

[docc]

Docc, the build date is located on the mfg plaque on the left side of the head tube.

Learn something here every day!

[chamberlin]

LOL Vauge-Liar that's a good one. Those seem to work better though, than the ITI gauges! (ITI = Incredibly Tawdry Indicators)

 

 

Black guages ( not vagueliar)