Now it's the electrics...

[ferguzzi]

Went over to the uk for 4 days, meet some Guzzi people and go to an airshow.

The tenni had other plans. In 1500 miles the aa were called 4 times, I missed most of the airshow, and am feeling not very benevolent towards my Guzzi.

One call out was for a flat tire, not the bikes fault, but the other three were electrical, which has never been an issue before.

Firstly, out of the blue, she wouldn't start. Battery ok, all indications good, all the correct noises etc, but press the starter and the indicator lights dim slightly, but bot a dicky bird from the starter itself.

Ahh, I think, I've read about this.

Wrestle off the tank, find those bullet connectors. But they looked healthy, so I turned the steering while pushing the starter, and a 15amp fuse blows.

So the aa guy turns up, we replace the fuse(idiot me for not having spares), and up she starts after fiddling with some wires under the tank. Off I go, but I am worried about what caused the fuse to blow in the first place.

2 days later same thing happens. This time I replace the fuse, but no change.

Aa man turns up, very sharp guy, he reckons a wire is damaged between the relay and the starter, so he rigs a short circuit direct from the starter to a wire, and when I touch the battery, it starts up. Excellent! It's messy and awkward but will get me home.

I ride off, and the bike conks out a mile later. The battery's dead!

Aa man comes again, same dude,(after a 3 hour wait), and he has a good look.

This is where I get a bit out of my depth. Obviously the battery has not been charged, and it's too much of a coincidence to be unrelated to the starter issue. He reckons the charging circuit is compromised probably in the same wiring loom as the starter wire, so he does some clever wiring where one of the relays should be(he removed it), and now it charges. Very clever. It's a messy operation to start and shutdown, I have to remove the seat and fiddle with wires, but it gets me home.

Now I only got home last night, and haven't taken the bike apart(nor will I , as my buddy's an auto electrician so I'll leave it to him), but has anyone else had issues with the wiring from the relays getting damaged? The aa guy reckon the relays themselves were working correctly.

I get the impression there's a loom somewhere under the relay box that's maybe shorting, but won't know until my mate has a good look.

Thoughts?

[thumper]

May be the voltage regulator, a lot on testing and replacing it on this site.

I had to replace mine.

[czakky]

My knee jerk reaction is always to check your main ground for instances like this.

[Kiwi_Roy]

All the Guzzis around that era seem to have the charging associated with the idiot lights and tacho, If they are not operating chances are the battery will go flat.

 

Blowing the 15 amp fuse in the start circuit is a symptom of too much resistance in the start relay feed (the solenoid is pulling a heavy current enough to dim the lights but not enough to pull the contacts in). This can also happen if the main positive is loose but when the AA guy jumped around it with a hot wire it pulled in ok In my experience it's dirty switch contacts.

 

If you unplug the start relay or the headlight relay this disables the regulator and the battery will go flat, I doubt the AA man would know that.

 

First of all remove and clean the battery leads and the main ground (earth) connection. Clean the ignition switch contacts checking the wires where they solder to the switch check the 30 amp charge fuse if you have one for sign of overheating (discoulored plastic)

 

And as Czakky says the main ground where it attaches to the gearbox, if it's loose the starter current will seek an alternate path through the regulator ground, may let out some magic smoke or even catch fire.

 

Carl doesn't have a Tenni schematic, what other model would it take after?

[Lucky Phil]

Went over to the uk for 4 days, meet some Guzzi people and go to an airshow.

The tenni had other plans. In 1500 miles the aa were called 4 times, I missed most of the airshow, and am feeling not very benevolent towards my Guzzi.

One call out was for a flat tire, not the bikes fault, but the other three were electrical, which has never been an issue before.

Firstly, out of the blue, she wouldn't start. Battery ok, all indications good, all the correct noises etc, but press the starter and the indicator lights dim slightly, but bot a dicky bird from the starter itself.

Ahh, I think, I've read about this.

Wrestle off the tank, find those bullet connectors. But they looked healthy, so I turned the steering while pushing the starter, and a 15amp fuse blows.

So the aa guy turns up, we replace the fuse(idiot me for not having spares), and up she starts after fiddling with some wires under the tank. Off I go, but I am worried about what caused the fuse to blow in the first place.

2 days later same thing happens. This time I replace the fuse, but no change.

Aa man turns up, very sharp guy, he reckons a wire is damaged between the relay and the starter, so he rigs a short circuit direct from the starter to a wire, and when I touch the battery, it starts up. Excellent! It's messy and awkward but will get me home.

I ride off, and the bike conks out a mile later. The battery's dead!

Aa man comes again, same dude,(after a 3 hour wait), and he has a good look.

This is where I get a bit out of my depth. Obviously the battery has not been charged, and it's too much of a coincidence to be unrelated to the starter issue. He reckons the charging circuit is compromised probably in the same wiring loom as the starter wire, so he does some clever wiring where one of the relays should be(he removed it), and now it charges. Very clever. It's a messy operation to start and shutdown, I have to remove the seat and fiddle with wires, but it gets me home.

Now I only got home last night, and haven't taken the bike apart(nor will I , as my buddy's an auto electrician so I'll leave it to him), but has anyone else had issues with the wiring from the relays getting damaged? The aa guy reckon the relays themselves were working correctly.

I get the impression there's a loom somewhere under the relay box that's maybe shorting, but won't know until my mate has a good look.

Thoughts?

Maybe its just objecting to being taken to England. can be a bit depressing there some times.

Try a trip to sunny Italy, or even Australia.

Ciao

[ferguzzi]

Ok, that's a few things to check.

Bear with me , I'm not too electrically minded. After the first fix( the short circuit from the starter to the wire which I would then touch to the battery to start), nothing else was disconnected. The relays were still in and all fuses good. Yet in the 10 minute ride after that, the tacho didn't work, and then the battery died. Surely it would take more then 10 minutes of not charging for a battery to conk out?

Also I forgot to mention that on the second failure, when the battery went, the aa guy noticed my earth wasn't connected to the battery at all. I have no idea how that could be. He reckoned it had only been working because it might have been touching the frame(maybe).

[lemppari]

Every time my V11 has had such related issues, dead tacho, lights etc, it's been the relay contacts. As you might have read, I've been struggling with a flickering charge light phenomena which then accumulated to a strangely jumping tacho needle incident just before my trip to Central Europe. Luckily I remembered having similar incidents years ago and after cleaning and tightening the relay base contacts all systems were ok for the duration of the journey!

[GraeV11]

 

Went over to the uk for 4 days, meet some Guzzi people and go to an airshow.

The tenni had other plans. In 1500 miles the aa were called 4 times, I missed most of the airshow, and am feeling not very benevolent towards my Guzzi.

One call out was for a flat tire, not the bikes fault, but the other three were electrical, which has never been an issue before.

Firstly, out of the blue, she wouldn't start. Battery ok, all indications good, all the correct noises etc, but press the starter and the indicator lights dim slightly, but bot a dicky bird from the starter itself.

Ahh, I think, I've read about this.

Wrestle off the tank, find those bullet connectors. But they looked healthy, so I turned the steering while pushing the starter, and a 15amp fuse blows.

So the aa guy turns up, we replace the fuse(idiot me for not having spares), and up she starts after fiddling with some wires under the tank. Off I go, but I am worried about what caused the fuse to blow in the first place.

2 days later same thing happens. This time I replace the fuse, but no change.

Aa man turns up, very sharp guy, he reckons a wire is damaged between the relay and the starter, so he rigs a short circuit direct from the starter to a wire, and when I touch the battery, it starts up. Excellent! It's messy and awkward but will get me home.

I ride off, and the bike conks out a mile later. The battery's dead!

Aa man comes again, same dude,(after a 3 hour wait), and he has a good look.

This is where I get a bit out of my depth. Obviously the battery has not been charged, and it's too much of a coincidence to be unrelated to the starter issue. He reckons the charging circuit is compromised probably in the same wiring loom as the starter wire, so he does some clever wiring where one of the relays should be(he removed it), and now it charges. Very clever. It's a messy operation to start and shutdown, I have to remove the seat and fiddle with wires, but it gets me home.

Now I only got home last night, and haven't taken the bike apart(nor will I , as my buddy's an auto electrician so I'll leave it to him), but has anyone else had issues with the wiring from the relays getting damaged? The aa guy reckon the relays themselves were working correctly.

I get the impression there's a loom somewhere under the relay box that's maybe shorting, but won't know until my mate has a good look.

Thoughts?

Maybe its just objecting to being taken to England. can be a bit depressing there some times.

Try a trip to sunny Italy, or even Australia.

Ciao

 

 

Just enjoying a real ale in the English sunshine. How's your pissy lager in the rain Phil ??

[docc]

Carl doesn't have a Tenni schematic, what other model would it take after?

The Tenni is (electrically/mechanically) a 2002 LeMans.

 

All dressed up for a fast date!

[Lucky Phil]

 

 

Went over to the uk for 4 days, meet some Guzzi people and go to an airshow.

The tenni had other plans. In 1500 miles the aa were called 4 times, I missed most of the airshow, and am feeling not very benevolent towards my Guzzi.

One call out was for a flat tire, not the bikes fault, but the other three were electrical, which has never been an issue before.

Firstly, out of the blue, she wouldn't start. Battery ok, all indications good, all the correct noises etc, but press the starter and the indicator lights dim slightly, but bot a dicky bird from the starter itself.

Ahh, I think, I've read about this.

Wrestle off the tank, find those bullet connectors. But they looked healthy, so I turned the steering while pushing the starter, and a 15amp fuse blows.

So the aa guy turns up, we replace the fuse(idiot me for not having spares), and up she starts after fiddling with some wires under the tank. Off I go, but I am worried about what caused the fuse to blow in the first place.

2 days later same thing happens. This time I replace the fuse, but no change.

Aa man turns up, very sharp guy, he reckons a wire is damaged between the relay and the starter, so he rigs a short circuit direct from the starter to a wire, and when I touch the battery, it starts up. Excellent! It's messy and awkward but will get me home.

I ride off, and the bike conks out a mile later. The battery's dead!

Aa man comes again, same dude,(after a 3 hour wait), and he has a good look.

This is where I get a bit out of my depth. Obviously the battery has not been charged, and it's too much of a coincidence to be unrelated to the starter issue. He reckons the charging circuit is compromised probably in the same wiring loom as the starter wire, so he does some clever wiring where one of the relays should be(he removed it), and now it charges. Very clever. It's a messy operation to start and shutdown, I have to remove the seat and fiddle with wires, but it gets me home.

Now I only got home last night, and haven't taken the bike apart(nor will I , as my buddy's an auto electrician so I'll leave it to him), but has anyone else had issues with the wiring from the relays getting damaged? The aa guy reckon the relays themselves were working correctly.

I get the impression there's a loom somewhere under the relay box that's maybe shorting, but won't know until my mate has a good look.

Thoughts?

Maybe its just objecting to being taken to England. can be a bit depressing there some times.

Try a trip to sunny Italy, or even Australia.

Ciao

 

 

Just enjoying a real ale in the English sunshine. How's your pissy lager in the rain Phil ??

 

Ha, Warm Ale no doubt. Me I'm more of a Merlot/Cab Sav man myself.

Then again I suppose you need something akin to Warm mud to kill the taste of the typical English cuisine.

Ciao 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Every time my V11 has had such related issues, dead tacho, lights etc, it's been the relay contacts. As you might have read, I've been struggling with a flickering charge light phenomena which then accumulated to a strangely jumping tacho needle incident just before my trip to Central Europe. Luckily I remembered having similar incidents years ago and after cleaning and tightening the relay base contacts all systems were ok for the duration of the journey!

Yes I looked at on a few weeks back, one of the relay pins had pushed out the back and was just touching intermittently. If the tacho starts dropping out chances are the headlights going off and charging has stopped, they share the headlight circuit. The same bike also had a relay that clicked but didn't always close the contact.

There's only one thing worse than an intermittent connection, that's two intermittent connections.

 

Thank's Docc for the Tenni info

[ferguzzi]

I'm away at the moment( I travel for a living), so won't get to fiddle with the bike for a few weeks. I'll get back to you when I finally get around to it. I'd love to think just cleaning up a few bits and pieces would sort it out. I think replacing the relays (I've still got the originals) mightn't do any harm either

[ferguzzi]

Finally got around to tinkering with the tenni , with the help of a mate, who's a fellow guzzisti, and an auto electrician.

So firstly the non charging. Seems during the first starting failure I screwed around with the relays, and put them back incorrectly. It took 2 days, about 5 hours riding for the battery to die, it was just a coincidence it died 5 minutes after the second starter failure . Idiot me.

The starter issue is a bit more of a mystery. We went through all the wires, relays and connectors and couldn't find any faults.

However.....while the aa were fiddling with the relays to figure out why it wasn't charging, they noticed that one of the earths to the battery wasn't connected . At all. It was just floating in the ether. No idea how, the last time I'd touched it was to replace the battery about 2 years ago. The guys reckoned it could have been earthing off the frame.

Who knows? It works fine now, so we'll see....think I'll replace some of the relays anyway.

[luhbo]

It's nice to read that you're onroad again.

A single mechanic knowing his business often helps more than a bunch of groundcables

 

Hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

Finally got around to tinkering with the tenni , with the help of a mate, who's a fellow guzzisti, and an auto electrician.

So firstly the non charging. Seems during the first starting failure I screwed around with the relays, and put them back incorrectly. It took 2 days, about 5 hours riding for the battery to die, it was just a coincidence it died 5 minutes after the second starter failure . Idiot me.

The starter issue is a bit more of a mystery. We went through all the wires, relays and connectors and couldn't find any faults.

However.....while the aa were fiddling with the relays to figure out why it wasn't charging, they noticed that one of the earths to the battery wasn't connected . At all. It was just floating in the ether. No idea how, the last time I'd touched it was to replace the battery about 2 years ago. The guys reckoned it could have been earthing off the frame.

Who knows? It works fine now, so we'll see....think I'll replace some of the relays anyway.

Yes you must have a 5 pin in the start relay position, it's best to use 5 pins in all slots that way they are inter-changable.