guzzidiag maps.

[moto fugazzi]

Did you alter the cold start time at all? I just received this info from Meinolf. I had cold start issues after I tried reducing my startup map yesterday.

 

"the map points are break points counting revolutions after starting the engine. These are counted down. So 4.000 is the beginning, then countdown to the next break-point starts. You can change the map points, but should also change the total value under skalars.

 

The original value should coincide with the highest map point, 4k in this example. And if you change the skalar then the breakpoints are should be adjusted accordingly.

 

But beware, I have found that twiddling with the enrichment map leads to strange results. As you have also experienced. My first findings are that the enrichment mechanism also includes changing the pre-ignition values, and quite significantly, too."

[czakky]

So basically we messed with something we shouldn't have?

 

Any idea how to "un-taint" one of these maps?

[moto fugazzi]

Not that we messed with something we shouldn't have, I don't think they knew at the time what the issues were when that value is changed.

 

It's easy. Just put the cold start scalar back at 4000 revolutions. Worked perfectly.
Meinolf is sending me a corrected map to reduce cold start to 2k, and I'll let you know how that turns out.
Ken

[czakky]

Keep me posted. BTW, my Odyssey is on the charger.

[Meinolf]

Hi,

 

Any idea how to "un-taint" one of these maps?

 

I've literally sent 1000's of modified bins to the ECU during my explorations into the 15M, and have never experienced "stickiness" of a bin. Load a new bin, or resort to the previous one, and that's what the ECU will be using. So un-tainting is easy, load the previous bin.

As to the cold start map. I have not yet done any systematic investigation of the cold start map/function, but for sure there's more than meets the eye. At first glance it seems that just 2 parameters can be twiddled, the values (injection values) and the map points. The map points need to be synced with the scalar, so if you change the scalar values from 4.000 (which seems to be the OEM values), then the map points in the cold start map should be changed accordingly.

 

Additionally I (believe) have found that there's an interdependency between the injection values and pre-ignition values. When playing around with the injection values (going up to 255), I saw pre-ignition values of up 61°. Which is way higher than any value in the ignition map.

 

Appearently the ECU is using not only the values is the map, but also uses functions (equations) to correlate the different maps. I'm pretty sure that idle (regardless of cold start or after the engine has been running for any time) is controlled also by changing the pre-ignition. As the actual ignition values I have seen are completely different than the values in the maps, this seems to be a reasonable assumption. 

 

Particulary as we found that the interpolation between two map points, for example in the base maps, is based on a linear interpolation equation

 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_interpolation)

 

But, we don't know even know is this interpolation is in one dimension (rpm map points) or in two dimensions (TPS map points). I believe the latter is the case.

 

Identifying maps (16x16 or 1x16) in the bin is (relatively) easy compared to finding the equations. I've spent considerable time gazing at the disassembled code, but, having no skills as a programmer at all, could as well have been looking into the sky :-)

 

I'm sure that Beard (the guy who wrote GuzziDiag and the other tools) and Paul would highly appreciate the help of anybody knowledgable in software. On the 15M (which also is no longer a focus topic as everybody is researching the newer ECUs), I'd say only 50% of the existing maps and correction tables are identified and understood. Much less on the interdependencies. 

 

So, what might be happening is that a changed value in the cold start map is outside the accepted range for the equation calculating the ignition. The result is that, even though the injection value might be good enough to provide an inflammable mixture, the corresponding calculated pre-ignition value is too far off to actually ignite the mixture.

 

Anyway, if there's a problem after changing the bin, go back to the last known-to-be good map.

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[luhbo]

Does anyone remember the days when enriching a certain map area just made this particular map area richer and didn't @#!#$# up the whole ecu (not to mention the neighbour's dog)? 

 

Hubert

[czakky]

Hi,

 

Any idea how to "un-taint" one of these maps?

 

Anyway, if there's a problem after changing the bin, go back to the last known-to-be good map.

 

I foolishly played with the "cold start duration" on the original bin thinking it was innocent enough, apparently I saved it after that. Now no matter what I do it doesn't revert.

[moto fugazzi]

Try loading the stock map again and see what happens. IIRC, I loaded a leaner cold start map (not revolutions, but fuel cells), and things went a little weird. That was a week or two ago.

My newest map only has timing retarded at 60%+ throttle where I was getting pinging from, and it works perfectly.

Ken

[czakky]

Will do, but it might be a while before I can test ride her.

 

Is there any special thing to watch out for when charging an Odyssey battery? Off topic I know but I thought I read somewhere that they need a special procedure.

[moto fugazzi]

If it runs, it wouldn't hurt to try.

Do you need parts? I may have some.

Ken

[czakky]

gear selector lever, and possibly a cilp-on bar (haven't tried to bend it back yet)

[moto fugazzi]

You can cut down any proper diameter handlebar to length, otherwise you can find some clip on bars online, but either way you may have to drill holes for the clutch pin locator. Woodcraft has similar bars if I remember correctly.

Is the gear shifter broken or just bent? If it's bent, you can heat the aluminum with a heat gun, and slowly bend it back into place. If it's broken, Harper's has the shifter on their website. This is for a 2001: http://www.harpermoto.com/parts-by-motorcycle/2000-up-moto-guzzi-motorcycles/v-11-le-mans-sport-naked-1100-2001-2002/gear-lever-en-v11-lemans-sport-naked-2001-2002.html

Ken

[czakky]

The only thing stopping me from going to woodcraft etc. clip ons is the great bar end/ vibration suppressant that guzzi provided.

Then again it limits my mirror choices.

 

The gear lever WAS bent until I tried to fix it now it's broke. I actually really like the Harpers upgraded homebrew lever. If I can't source a used one that will be the one i end up with.

 

This no motorcycle riding stuff sucks!

[moto fugazzi]

I have a spare 15M ecu from a ducati 900ss that I just reflashed with my adjusted retarded timing to eliminate pinging. It seems to have taken the reflash well. Do you want me to send it to you so you can give it a try?

Ken

[czakky]

That would be awesome. No cold start issues?