iSLE OF mAN.

[Lucky Phil]

 

There's a reason there isnt many guzzi's at the TT, have a guess.

I'll give you a few clues to get you started.......... fat,slow,shaft drive, handle like pigs.

That should get you on the right track.

Ciao 

Probably why they got they're butt kicked at Daytona in the BOTT.Oh wait ,they won. This is what you want http://www.odd-bike.com/2013/03/moto-guzzi-mgs-01-cooking-goose.html but a built up Daytona would be within reach and quite competent in a Classic race.

 

I like the way Americans and others for that matter think that BOTT has some sort of ranking in the greater world of international racing. 

Its an amateur racing series and interesting for that but its many many levels below professional racing and thats what I judge a machine from.

Is it competative at the TOP professional level in its day, or not.

Its like Dr Johns Guzzi's, loved the storiy and the man for his passion and engineering and what he achieved with what he had ( everybody loves an under dog) but really it was winning what?, some US endurance series. Not exactly the hight water mark in international racing. 

So the people are amazing as is their effort but at the end of  the day their race bikes really havent cut it with the big boys.  

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

Phil,

 

Remind us newbies what's your experience at the Isle of Man?

 

My brother was there this year for the Classic and had a great time. So we're trying to work out how we can both go next year.

I was at the TT twice in the eighties as a mechanic and pit crew.   

Ciao  

[Lucky Phil]

Let's get this in perspective.  The OP is looking at running the Manx GP- not the TT.  He's not looking for a spine frame, 4 valver or MGS-01.   This is the vintage racing for bikes manufactured prior to 1987.

 

Certainly a 1000 LeMans would be a formidable ride and should be competitive with any Euro or Japanese bike from the era.

What, up against TT2 and F1 Ducatis? dream on my friend.

 

Ciao 

[Lucky Phil]

Just to add bit more information that may help to understand our plan to race a MG in next years Manx.  First We're not total newbes in the racing world.  I raced and build race cars for forty years and now am retired and building Cafe Racers for fun and profit.  The rider in this years Manx has 18 years on the island with over 50 TT and Manx starts.  We sat down one night and added it up and best we can guess he has about 1000 laps on the course.

 

As Phil sugjested we showed up with a full pop, "pop" being the pivital word GSXR and promply blew a fist sized hole in the engine.  We did finish the race on an engine we picked up off e-bay that was for the most part stock.

 

So the reasoning on the MG idea.  No one is really racing one on the Island.  Next year we plan to field two bikes one in the senior and one in the 600 class.  Doing well on this course is all about track time and track time is hard to get.  We wanted to pick a third bike to run in the classic races and we we're hearing things like the engine torque will make the thing unridable (?????) so we started looking at what would confront us if we rode a MG.  After this years races we stayed on the IOM to load up and had time lap the course many times.  We think that the MG may very well be in it's sweet spot with all the long curving straights.  I must also add that being a bit of an odd ball it will get us some extra ink just because no one else is really racing one.

 

I want to thank you all for your imput and please keep it up.  This is something we have decided to undertake and are still working out what model Guzzi to pick that will fit the rules to the best of our advantage.

 

Rich

Well Rich its nice to hear your rider has a lot of experience at the Island because that counts for a lot.

Slow steering old buses like 70's and 80's Guzzies may seem like a great thing for the Island but if you get it wrong at some point then its hard to get them back on line. The lazy steering can get you into trouble.   

Ciao

[LowRyter]

 

Let's get this in perspective.  The OP is looking at running the Manx GP- not the TT.  He's not looking for a spine frame, 4 valver or MGS-01.   This is the vintage racing for bikes manufactured prior to 1987.

 

Certainly a 1000 LeMans would be a formidable ride and should be competitive with any Euro or Japanese bike from the era.

What, up against TT2 and F1 Ducatis? dream on my friend.

 

Ciao 

 

 

yeah... no chance

 

[rich46]

Wow, thanks to all of you for helping out and offering all the insight and information.  If you want I will keep everyone updated as the project moves ahead.  I learned that because of the shipping times to get the bikes to the IOM you can never start too early.

 

Looks like the Le Mans/Tonti will be the best for our purposes so now I'm on the prowel for one that is just decrepid enough to not cost an arm and a leg. Based on the rules for the Manx Formula 1/ Classic TT and BEARS we can bore the engine to 1300 but of course 1000cc is what we'll use engine inturnals are open as long as head and cases stay OEM.  Brakes are free (No radial caliper mountings) carbs are free (no flat sides or Power jets) Forks are to be Pattern same type and materials (No USD forks) I suspect that we can use Ohlins as they were supplied as OEM.

 

Again fee free to put in your two cents ideas or leads at anytime.  First step to knowledge is to know that you don't know and I'm sure many of you are better versed on the Guzzi that I.  It's a motorbike that I have loved for years and would have wanted to race one if for no other reason than I love the sounds they make.

 

Wade and I are going to try and keep the look that Doctor John's BoTT's bikes had to at least show what he did for the mark.  Please all of you keep in touch as I will try and do.

 

Cheers,

Rich

[PDoz]

Why pay the premium of a lemans if you're going to make up your own styling etc? By 87 the california was 1000 cc vs 850 in the lemon??? Plus there is a strange irony in entering a cruiser......

[malik]

Don't forget to spread your net a little wider - there's the odd guzzi being raced in Australia and NZ, occasionally with success. They are always the best sounding bike on the track. You should be able to get leads on them through wildguzzi. I'll mention your quest to the guzzisti racing at the Burt Munro in November and others in Australia as I come across them.

 

Mal

[rich46]

Mal,

 

If you are going to be at Phillip Island in January say hi to the rider I was talking about "Wade" he's racing his sidecar outfit with his wife Christine.  They did quite well in last years event.

 

Rich

[rich46]

Andrew,

 

Where do you live?   Wade the purple nurple you have the right one.  Been doing the SMR since Wade rode on the gas tank of his dads bike (well almost) anyway since the early 70's  Thanks for the input we will keep in touch.

 

Some folks don't understand about the TT course.  It's a lot more like climbing Mount Everest than racing motorcycles.just surviving to the finish (or getting to the top) is a big deal.  The Moto Guzzi idea stemmed from a conversation on the Island with a guy that said you can't race a Moto Guzzi here because the engine torque will make it unridable.  Once Wade and I got over that idea we just decided we'd make one go as good as we could.  Suspect you'll understand the reasoning .  PM me if you want.  Wade and I both crashed our street rides before the Manx and were laid up until just before we left for the island.  We're going to try and make this Sundays ride in fact.

 

Cheers,

Rich

[rich46]

I like it! The thing about Guzzi's they show off that great "V" twin engine and have a sound unlike anything else.. 

 

Rich

[big J]

Fair play Rich, it's going to be a huge challenge all right.

Should you manage to pull it off and race a classic Guzzi at the TT (and I'm sure you will) I reckon you'll make a lot of moderately strange, abstractly incurably romantic old guys very happy. 

I have no race experience but as Andrew said above, Maxton stuff is first class, I have it on my V11.

There's a Guzzi breaker, Reboot Guzzi spares, it might be an idea to buy only what you need for the foundation of your race bike, rather than buy a road bike and throw half of it aside.

 

Anyway, good luck with it, my hat is doffed in your general direction. That doesnt happen often

 

Oh, a second thought. Try to contact Pete Roper, he's sound. He can be difficult to get hold of, between a Yak fat bottling enterprise and his midget porn empire, he doesnt have much free time, but he's fettled a Guzzi or 2

[gavo]

People are holding up a Daytona winner as a good example, I would have thought a Daytona bike and a TT bike would like chalk and cheese as are the tracks. 

Fast on one track does not always carry over to the next.

[guzzigray]

People are holding up a Daytona winner as a good example, I would have thought a Daytona bike and a TT bike would like chalk and cheese as are the tracks. 

Fast on one track does not always carry over to the next.

The bike I posted is an ex Manfred Hecht built, Dr John style. It's a great starting point for either …….

[GuzziMoto]

I raced against Pete Johnson on a couple bikes like that (one was big, the other was bigger) when I raced Ducati's. They were fast, and the faster the track (like Road Atlanta in the old days and Daytona) the faster they were. I wonder if that was ever one of Pete's Guzzi's?

I don't know what the TT course is like but I would think they would do pretty well for their age. And against other old bikes they should be pretty competitive.

When it comes to vintage racing it is all relative.

Back in the day Guzzi's were not as slow relative to the rest as they are now. There are a few Guzzi's that are not so slow, like the MGS01, and there is the Big Bore version of the Guzzi motor that, especially when put in a G&B chassis or an MGS01, can also go pretty fast. But they are no longer at the sharp end of the field. But back in the day of Dr John, like in that video, Guzzi's were able to race against and beat the Japanese bikes, as long as the race was long enough. Endurance racing was their last gasp.