Le Mans V11 2002 Not Starting

[MikeDelta]

Dears,

 

I joined recently the forum as I'm a recent Guzzi owner. Used only a few time but for a 1500 kms in total, I love the bike,

 

After a month long stop, I dissassembled it a little for mounting a Tank Cover, a Rack and a good cleaning.

 

Then, when I tried to start the bike, I haven't tried before doing the job, the engine did not start.

 

I noticed that non noise came from the fuel pump, two clicks from the relay bay were clearly audible  when the key was turned on.

 

Any suggestion?

 

Thanks

 

I take the opportunity of enclosing pictures of my bike.

[rossi46]

Hi I think that the front relay is for the starter swap it with another to see if this is the problem, also how old is the battery? oh and welcome to the forum

[MikeDelta]

Hi,

The battery is fully charged and is Ok. According to the workshop manual I have , the last to relays (towards the back of the bike) are about the fuel system. As they are identical, I exchanged them with no results.

 

 

MikeDelta

[jwh20]

As I recall there are a couple of bullet connectors under the front of the tank that are a part of the starter circuit and these easily come loose.  I know there are some other postings on the details here on the board.

 

By the way, NICE looking LeMans!  I love the champagne color!  Mine's red and it's a close 2nd.  Hope you get it going soon, the V11 is a great bike! 

[fotoguzzi]

Hi, . According to the workshop manual

that's a little bit of faith you should get over.. I would swap all relays for new if they are the Seimens brand (stock)..

 

but agree the bullet connectors under left front of tank might be the problem..

 

As I recall there are a couple of bullet connectors under the front of the tank that are a part of the starter circuit and these easily come loose.  I know there are some other postings on the details here on the board.

 

By the way, NICE looking LeMans!  I love the champagne color!  Mine's red and it's a close 2nd.  Hope you get it going soon, the V11 is a great bike! 

after that ignition switch..

 

clutch in when starting right?

 

oh, is your kill switch activated?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Welcome to the forum

Posting from Italy, wow just 2 hours from the factory, are used Guzzis common over there?

 

You said No noise from the pump so its the kill switch, or sidestand switch stopping the power to the ECU.

If your bike has the electric petcock the fuse is a good place to check, it gets power just before the ECU

You can bypass the sidestand relay by removing it and poke a wire in the 30 & 87 sockets.

 

Be careful not to switch the fuel level sensor plug with the electric petcock plug, they should be colour coded.

 

The schematics can be a bit daunting so I made this simplified sketch.

http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s526/Kiwi_Roy/Start%20Problem/SimpleWiring_zpsb4c54183.jpg

 

And here;s a link to Docc's throubleshooting chart.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16529

 

Bear in mind the Italian bikes may not be wired quite the same as they are for Nth. America

[MikeDelta]

Thanks to everybody for your help.

In order:

I cleaned and thightened the bullet connectors as part of the general cleaning.

The petcock is manual altough a strange one, is a sort of screw that needs a few turn to close. Anyway it works. I didn't explain myself well, the starting motor was turning the engine correctly. It should mean that the kill switch is ok as well the side stand switch, am I correct? I suspect the fuel pump is gone as any noise from its body with the switch on and any gas smell arond the bike after insisting a little with the starting motor.

 

 

MikeDelta

[luhbo]

You checked the fuses?

[Kiwi_Roy]

The fuel pumps are very reliable

When you first turn the key on you should hear it running for about 2 seconds.

Check for power on the two fuses that power up the ECU Relays,

 

Check that you didn't leave a wire off the battery when you had it out.

 

 

To test the Fuel Pump

http://i1304.photobu...zpsb4c54183.jpg

Unplug the ECU and remove relay 5

The 87 contact of the relay base is connected to the fuel pump. With a multimeter you will be able to measure the fuel pump resistance from 87 to the chassis, it should read 1 or 2 Ohms.

Contact 30 of the relay base should have 12 Volts. If you take a piece of wire and plug it in the relay base the pump should run.

(you have the ECU unplugged so the bike will not fire)

[MikeDelta]

Thanks, I took the opportunity for additional maintenance changing the fuel filter, partially the fuel hoses, cheking the fuel pump off the the bike and it works well. But on the bike it is dead.

Fuses are ok.

Unfortunately I've finished the time to spend on it, hopefully again on the week end with your suggestions.

 

 

MikeDelta

[luhbo]

From time to time it's the phase sensor. All parts on a bike can fail, unfortunately also the less cheaper ones. If all else is ok, consider this part to be the problem. In this case the pump primes when you turn on the ignition, but then stays dead. Normally it comes on again as soon as the engine turns and triggers the ecu via the phase sensor.

My personal experience is that the relays are rather seldomly making problems. Keep their terminals clean and make sure they find enough grip in the sockets.

 

Hubert

[Kiwi_Roy]

As Hubert says, it's important to know if the pump primes for 2 seconds when you turn the key ON

Answer that and we can zero in a bit more.

[MikeDelta]

Thanks for suggestions. The pump does not prime, I haven't realized that it works for one or two seconds as it stays absolutely silent. Can a failed Ecu have any influence on the problem.

The bike run perfectly till it was switched off 1 month ago.

In the meantime I have only taken the fuel tank off a few times for fitting the tank cover in the best way.

 

 

MikeDelta

[Welshguzzi]

Don't want to be cheeky, but you have turned the fuel tap back on, haven't you? (guess why I ask......)

[Kiwi_Roy]

The ECUs are quite reliable, I think it is not getting 12 Volts

Relay 4 sends 12 Volts to the ECU

 

The ECU turns ON relay 5 to run the pump

 

The relay bases look something like this

 

      ------      30 contact, this should be alive (12 Volts) at all times

 

      ------      87 contact, this becomes alive when the relay coil gets power

 

  |      |     |    The 2 smaller outside pins are for the coil, the middle one is 87A (not used)

 

If you remove relay No 4 you should see Voltage between the 2 coil pins when the key is ON

If you don't try each pin to the chassis (ground / frame)

 

Although you don't have an electric petcock you probably still have a fuse for it, Fuse No 8 on my bike, this should have 12 Volts on it when the bike is ready to run.

Between the petcock fuse and relay No 4 there is a single way connector, check it's plugged in.

 

I think the ECU negative is a small wire connected to the battery negative terminal, look closely at the battery and make sure all the wires are connected.

 

I sent you a message.