OEM Regulator Rectifier

[docc]

It would be easy to declare the regulator/rectifier on the V11 series prone to troubles. No doubt, you should go out to the garage right now and add a substantial ground strap from the regulator case to the timing chest of the engine. While you're at it, add a good ground strap from the same spot to the frame, and make absolutely certain your battery-to-gearbox ground is clean and solid. Be sure your 30 amp regulator fuse has good contact and is not melted or burned.

 

At 92,600 miles (149.000 km), I am on my third Ducati Energia regulator. The original lasted almost 5 years/37,200 miles replaced by a dealer supplied part for 245 USD in 2005.

 

That unit lasted just over 5 years/34,500 miles and was replaced by a unit from EuroMotoElectrics in Colorado, USA, for 140 USD in 2010. It is still in service after over 4 years/30,000 miles.

 

Their written recommendations included adding a ground "direct to battery and/or engine strongly recommended." I did this at that time and have much better charging voltage. Sometime in the next 6-12 months, I'll find out if that alone extends the life of the regulator.

 

But, I also found this warning, which I never noticed before:

 

                                                                                           BEWARE:

DO NOT charge or jump start

without disconnecting Voltage

Regulator/Rectifier from the

battery.

 

First, I don't consider having to replace this part a couple times in 14 years as excessive. Second, I hope I don't have to replace it again anytime soon.

 

But mainly, should I take the 30 amp regulator fuse out while doing routine charging? It would be easy and could be something I've always done wrong.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes a better ground is vital, on mine it's bolted to the horn bracket which in turn is bolted to the chassis.

None of the bolt holes are cleaned of paint or greased to prevent rust.

The little wimpy wire that goes back to the battery has too much Voltage drop and in fact it's a liability, more than one guzzi I know has gone up in smoke when the main battery ground worked loose forcing the start current to find an alternate path thru this wire.

The connection to ground carries the same current as the red wire as it makes it's way back to the alternator.

Any Voltage lost in the ground connection is lost to the battery as the regulator senses the Voltage between the black wire and the reg case 13.8 Volts

 

Shall I go on?

[docc]

Yeah, Roy:

 

Even with a ground-to-engine, ground engine-to-frame, and ground engine(gearbox)-to-battery . . . extra benefit to add another ground all the way from regulator case-to-battery terminal?

 

Also, what about this business of removing the 30a fuse while charging? That could protect the Ducati-Energia from "trouble?"

[moto fugazzi]

Where did you find the info on the warning for charging? Is that from EME?

 

I also noticed the "not recommended for use with Odyssey or Lithium Iron (yes, Iron)" batteries. I wonder if that's part of the issue with the original R/R's. They were designed for use with lead acid batteries, and quite a few of us are using Odyssey or newer technology batteries. I still had my original R/R in my bike until I decided to "upgrade" to an ESR510 2 years ago, and have had nothing but problems with them. Just a thought, and keep in mind that I have no idea about charging methods of these newer technology batteries. Hell, I was at Home Depot yesterday looking at cordless drills, and the sales person mentioned that the Makita drills required the multi chemistry chargers for their batteries. No idea what that's about.

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

I think adding a ground from rectifier to battery is a bad idea, there is one there already run through the main loom, If the main battery ground works loose this little wire tries to return the starting current, gets red hot and shorts the loom to ground, If you are lucky the bike doesn't catch fire.

 

Grounding the regulator to the engine is a more direct route, the mass of aluminum is a much better conductor than any copper wire, then it travels up the main ground to the battery, If the main ground works loose nothing happens because there is no return path.

 

I see no point in disconnecting the regulator it has diodes in the red wire that are rated over 400 Volts.

[moto fugazzi]

I think adding a ground from rectifier to battery is a bad idea, there is one there already run through the main loom, If the main battery ground works loose this little wire tries to return the starting current, gets red hot and shorts the loom to ground, If you are lucky the bike doesn't catch fire.

 

Grounding the regulator to the engine is a more direct route, the mass of aluminum is a much better conductor than any copper wire, then it travels up the main ground to the battery, If the main ground works loose nothing happens because there is no return path.

 

That's something I never thought of. Thanks again, Roy!

Ken

[Kiwi_Roy]

I think the biggest downfall of the Ducati Energia regulators is the way they measure the Voltage not at the battery but after the headlight relay (after the start relay and the headlight relay on some like my 2001).

At this point the Voltage is about 1/2 Volt lower than the battery so to satisfy the regulator setting of 13.8 Volts the battery has to reach 13.8 + 0.5 or 14.3 Volts

 If the relay pins become a bit corroded or you replace the headlamp with a higher Wattage unit the battery Voltage is pushed even higher.

Since charging current v/s charging Voltage is sort of an exponential curve it doesn't take much to push the regulator too far causing the leads to melt a lead off one of the internal diodes effectively cutting the charge capability in half.

I believe they sense the Voltage after the headlight relay is because the regulator electronics draws 15 mA which would quite quickly flatten the battery if left on the headlight relay removes power when the key is off.

 

I think using a separate relay Battery + to the black wire would solve this overcharging problem but then the battery Voltage would drop to 13.8 without the benefit of Voltage drop . Actually adding headlight relays powered direct from the battery effectively does this, without the headlight current passing through the circuit the Voltage drop disappears so the battery will charge to about 1/2 Volt less. (there is a simple way to compensate for the lower Voltage i.e. make the regulator adjustable)

 

Another way to cure this problem is to fit a later or after market direct connected regulator. They draw a constant current from the battery even when the bike is off but with modern components it's a lot lower (13.8 mA in the case of Electrosport's ESR510

 

BTW, don't try to run the bike with the headlight relay pulled or the fuse out to save power because the battery will not be charging.

[docc]

Where did you find the info on the warning for charging? Is that from EME?

 

Yeah, it's a sticker on the invoice. A separate sticker "strongly advises" the separate ground.

 

Where did you see the disclaimer about the Odyssey (AGM) application?

[moto fugazzi]

 

Where did you see the disclaimer about the Odyssey (AGM) application?

 

It's right on the website in the description. http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edlguz-voltrectoe.htm

[luhbo]

Just another reason to keep his fingers away from that stuff.

[docc]

 

 

Where did you see the disclaimer about the Odyssey (AGM) application?

 

It's right on the website in the description. http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edlguz-voltrectoe.htm

 

I don't see the V11 series listed for that application. This is the specific unit on my Sport EDL-450 from EME.

 

I do see the Odyssey disclaimer there as well. And no detailed applications chart at all. Technical specifications do claim 14.2 Volt setting which is perfect for the AGM.

 

I'll try to ignore their also listing the lithium "iron" as not recommended, but what is it about the AGM that would not be compatible with these regulators?

[Kiwi_Roy]

In the description they describe it as a "Designed for direct connection to the battery to bypass potential wiring harness issues"

If you go plug and play, you keep the old issues.

Since I reverse engineered one I thought these are a well designed unit, it's the flakey wiring that destroys them.

 

If any-ones curious do this little test - record the results

1) Take your multimeter and measure the Voltage from battery + to the regulators black wire with the key on

2) If you have a separate light switch turn it on and take the same reading

3) Turn the key OFF, pull the first two relays Start and headlight, put them back in again.

4) Do 1 & 2 again

The results are more telling if your relays haven't been disturbed in a long while.

 

If I were to buy another of these I would be tempted to provide the black reference wire with a dedicated relay thus avoiding the flakey headlight circuit.

The ones I have are all set at 13.8 Volts, ~ 14.3 when you factor in the Voltage drop from battery to the measuring point. I wonder if they are allowing for it also in their 14.2 setting.

 

I have a fairly new one on my EV, I will check it out.

[moto fugazzi]

 

If I were to buy another of these I would be tempted to provide the black reference wire with a dedicated relay thus avoiding the flakey headlight circuit.

The ones I have are all set at 13.8 Volts, ~ 14.3 when you factor in the Voltage drop from battery to the measuring point. I wonder if they are allowing for it also in their 14.2 setting.

Brilliant idea! I have an extra feed from my battery in the headlight shell. Do you think I can use the reference wire (non regulator side when they're disconnected) for the relay "feed" for #86 on the relay? If not, is there a better place to tap into at the front of the bike? Obviously I can't tap into the low beam since I'd have 0 volts when I turn the highs on.

Ken

[docc]

Right! So, besides grounding the RR case to the engine etc, etc, what about this idea of changing the source of the reference voltage?

[Kiwi_Roy]

You need a wire that has no load on it (no Voltage drop) and is connected to the battery, it doesn't have to be a big one.

Pass it through relay contacts, the relay coil can be any switched circuit, the original Red/black wire to the reference for example and chassis.

 

I had thought of using a wire from relay 4 87 contact, it has very little load on it and is powered direct from the battery through a fuse. I don't know what you will think about using the ECU relay though. The regulator draws about 15 mA.