Dumb Battery questions

[Lex]

Having come from the wacky world of BMW (where they have the most advanced peripheral stuff but seem to miss the more basic advancements) the sealed battery in my Goose is a new experience for me.

 

When I went out to my bike after work Friday night it wouldn't start. The bike tried a few times but then the dreaded "click-click-click" sound came from the starter. I was so glad I worked a little late and the Harley crowd had already left. I assumed this was from too many short rides and all the testing I've done recently making a few changes. I push started the bike (years of riding beaters pays off) and put it on my "smart" charger when I got home. It looked like it was charging and the next day it started fine but after a few tries the started got slower and slower and finally got back to "Click...". I reconnected the charger and it acted very strangely, swinging from high output to zero and back very quickly. I pulled the battery, checked the obvious stuff and put the battery on my old, "dumb" charger. It seems to have taken a charge but I have to wonder.

 

Since I can't use a hydrometer and I can't look into the cells I don't have any idea how to test the battery. Can somebody with more time with sealed batters tell me how to find out if my battery is no good before I find out late one night far from home? I didn't see any relevant stuff when I did a search on this site. The bike (and I assume the battery) is only 14 months old. BTW, if my battery is past its prime any good sources for batteries for those of us who's who live in the boonies?

 

TIA for any help,

 

Lex

[Mike Stewart]

Well Lex,

 

It sounds like its time for a battery. I have been amazed how long my 00 V11 Sport battery has lasted compaired to the many batterys I have replaced in my last R1100 RSL Beemer. You can only check the battery via a load tester and not to many homeowners have one. One problem many batteries suffer from is plate seperation due to vibrations.

The sealed battery in my Aprilia only lasted a year and a half, but it was way under rated. So do a search on the web for a replacement battery.

 

Good luck,

Mike

 

PS, is there going to be a Central Guzzi Bash this year?

[Steve G.]

Funny, I've got an '01 V11, and my battery is already showing signs of going 'south'. It needs to be put on the battery tender to confirm starting.Seeing as I have owned the bike [from new] for 12 months now, I find this unacceptable. Not sure if this is covered under warranty. One thing I believe, is that the battery in these bikes are not strong enough, not enough rated cold cranking amps, much like Hinckley Triumphs, strictly mimimalist.The V11/Lemans has alot of electrical dependent systems which need a strong backup on startup. Fuel injection, starter, ignition, fuel valve opening.

If and when this battery in my machine is done, I shall be looking at installing an Odyssey dry cell battery. High performance specs, impervious to vibration [and these bikes to shake enough to wreck a battery]

Ciao, Steve G.

[al_roethlisberger]

Well, keep in mind that if you have an '01, regardless of how long you've owned the bike, the battery is probably going on 3 years old.... so I don't know that it's failing a year after you've gotten the bike is a good indicator of the quality of the batteries in general

 

I've had mine for 18 months with never a problem(knock on wood), and really haven't heard too many complaints about the current ones. I keep mine on the battery tender regularly as well, so perhaps that helps.

 

Would love to hear what model of this dry cell you end up getting though... sounds interesting

 

It would be good to compile a list of compatible aftermarket battery alternatives, and their advantages for a FAQ.

 

al

[Lex]

It looks like Mike was right, the bike only started 5-6 times on the "charged" battery. If Al is right I understand why the battery is dead, sitting for two years would defiantly give any battery a short useful life. That would be really dumb on Moto Guzzi's part.

 

Steve, can you point me towards any more information about the Odyssey batteries? I found the correct battery (WP 13-12) on the web for $83.75 including shipping at Motorcycle Batteries USA does that sound like fair price?

 

Any feedback about the Odyssey or other batteries in the rough world of Moto Guzzis? Given the high starting loads, vibration and poor alternator I'd guess Guzzis are pretty rough on batteries. I'd love to hear good or bad feedback from people who have used the Odyssey or another brand of battery in a Goose.

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Lex

[jrt]

I don't think two-three years is way out of the realm of possibilities for battery going bad. It's a pretty small battery, and probably has a pretty high current demand (as you were saying).

My understanding is that gel batteries require a high initial current to start charging. I'm still not sure why this is (and I'm a chemist ) but 'normal old' battery chargers are not as effective at initiating a charge. Guess I need to do some research. If anyone knows why (mechanically), I'd be interested in knowing. On the other hand, new-fangled 'smart' charges don't work for anodizing aluminum. So...I have new-style batteries and old style chargers.

I do have an Odyssey battery in my Jackal, but I've only had it one season. Works fine- I haven't had it long enough to evaluate, other than the bike starts every time I hit the button. It's a much larger battery than the V11 also.

Exercise caution when starting a V11 with a dead battery. The computer is senstive to voltage spikes. Don't jump the bike. Also, consider wiring in a transil diode to protect the ECU from spikes. I guess you could then jump the bike if you wired one in.

 

Cheers,

Jason

[Lex]

My new Westco battery finally arrived. My Goose is no longer cooked. (large sigh of contentment).

 

Thanks for the advice. BTW, it looks like Odyssey doesn't make a battery for our bikes but Westco does.

 

Now, if will stop raining I can go for a ride.

 

Mike, Sorry I missed your question the first time I read your post. Yup, I should be at the central coast gathering. It is only about 10 miles from my house so I don't have much of an excuse to miss it. I hope to see you and the rest of the fine Guzzi folks

 

Cheers,

 

Lex

[callison]

Odyssey made the original dry cell battery used in the Sport 1100i's and HD's in 1997. Original price was $158 USD. They are a good battery, so is the Westco one. To date though, I have had two fail due to the cases coming unsealed. One Westco and one Odyssey. Guzzi isn't dumb. They had too high of a rate of warranty BIKE replacements that were due to acid spills from dealerships overfilling the standard lead acid batteries, so they switched to the dry cell batteries across the whole line. Or so I was told by John Stoddard a few years ago.

[Guest Nickos]

Here is my experience with the Odyssey batteriy made by Hawker. http://www.hepi.com/products.htm

 

I understand that they are not gel but matt absorbsion. The difference is that the latter have a large CCA which translates to lively starters necessary to crank those big Guzzis. Gel batteries are more suitable to continuous power applications like wheelchairs etc.

 

Hawker makes Odyssey and Genesis. I would guess they are all the same with a different badge and different dimensions. Why? Dunno.

 

My Centauro originally came with an Odyssey which later became unavailable and the replacement was the Genesis G13EP - exactly the type used in the V11.

 

Once, the huge conventional battery in my BMW died and I strapped on the Odyddey so I could ride. That little sucker sure did crank the heck out of the starter!!! Very good performance for the size.

 

One day the Odyssey died and not in the usual way of the conventional baterries where they go south a bit each day. One moment it was working fine and the next the bike wouldn't start.

 

Later I realized that the battery had shorted and by doing so there was no internal resistance. Keep that in mind and you will realize why you shouldn't push the bike in this condition.

 

I didn't and I pushed started it. It fired for three seconds and the bike stopped for good. The ECU was fried and the bike returned home on a truck.

 

I am not sure if the V11 has a protection for the ECU but the V10 didn't and this cost me a pretty penny. (Or Euro to be exact) There is an article on guzzitech.com about how to repair the M16 ECU when this happens under "Sport 1100i and Similar Computer Repair" but of course the V11 uses the M15 ECU.

 

Here is where you can find instructions on how to build a diode to protect the ECU

http://paaat.guzz.free.fr/diode_transil/english.html

 

Before this I had the same battery low in voltage and push starting it didn't do any damage because it was working properly with a normal internal resistance. That's why I was so eager to push start it this way the second time around.

 

This OE battery lasted for six years including a period of one year in storage and it was going strong up to the last moment.

 

In my experience those batteries are excellent performers and last a long time but they can die suddenly causing trouble if there is no ECU protection.

 

The size of the Genesis G13EP is 17,55cm X 8,33cm X 13cm

 

I am sure the Westco is a good alternative but like the Genesis American products may be hard to find in Europe.

 

I have seen on a new Yamaha TDM900 a GS battery which is sealed (and laying on its side) which is a strong performer too. Its dimensions are 15 X 7 X 13 and the code on it is: GT12B4. I don't have any more info on that, perhaps someone could search this.

 

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Nickos Costopoulos - Athens, Greece

1986 K100RS

http://flyingbrick.freeyellow.com