Replacement Clutch for a Tenni

[mznyc]

All the late model V11S,Griso,Cali's(not current) and bikes of that era,late 90's-late 2000's twin platers will fit.Buy them from any breaker,or Ebay (got mine from Reboot an 08 Griso),new plates and input hub,(hub,input gear if you like to call them) seals and borrow or buy the compression/alignment and starter wheel locking tools and have at it.You don't need the compression tool on the single to remove it as it uses a pressure plate and not springs,but helps all lot when installing the springed twins.From what people who have said who I have tried,nearly impossible.

The new RAM single replacements may be better than some of the originals but don't know.

There is no describable difference in feel between the single and twin plater,unless your racing,the twin is the way to go.

[Camn]

I wonder if the RAM kit use the stock clutch plate

http://www.hmb-guzzi.de/shop/Clutch/Clutch-internals/. Different clutch plate for single disc (RAM) and stock clutch (two plater).

 

 

 

 

no describable difference in feel between the single and twin plater

On mine the single plater needed much less force on the lever to use. I liked it better. Only the flywheel had bad cracks and I was not ready to change the whole clutch every 20.000 miles.

[slowkitty]

Dear Gents,

 

Thanks for the input. Just want to clear a doubt. it seems that there is some indication that the flywheel from the Centauro / V1100 Sporti series can be used. If I were to use that, I need to install the clutch hub (or clutch boss) for the Centauro / V1100 Sporti?

 

Can I then use the starte ring (aka toothed rim) from a V11 Sport or must I use the one from the Centauro / V1100 Sporti series? 

 

Doing research now, and my head is spinning with flywheels/toothed rim etc....

 

Thanks 

[mznyc]

 

I wonder if the RAM kit use the stock clutch plate

http://www.hmb-guzzi.de/shop/Clutch/Clutch-internals/. Different clutch plate for single disc (RAM) and stock clutch (two plater).

 

 

 

 

On mine the single plater needed much less force on the lever to use. I liked it better. Only the flywheel had bad cracks and I was not ready to change the whole clutch every 20.000 miles.

 

I must be incredibly strong! All those years of drumming have made me a God.The increased pull at the clutch lever is like a couple fleas trying to hold it back,...Not an issue ,...for most.Shouldn't effect anyone's decision on whether going to a 2plate.

The flywheel had ALWAYS been the problem.If you go back to the early threads about this from 10 years ago,you will see pictures of cracked flywheels and broken cases.Lucky no one was injured.My guess the one that Paradiso posted was not far from exploding.Seems like most of the affected models were Non-US for some reason.Mine appeared fine,but didn't have it image tested...

[mznyc]

Dear Gents,

 

Thanks for the input. Just want to clear a doubt. it seems that there is some indication that the flywheel from the Centauro / V1100 Sporti series can be used. If I were to use that, I need to install the clutch hub (or clutch boss) for the Centauro / V1100 Sporti?

 

Can I then use the starte ring (aka toothed rim) from a V11 Sport or must I use the one from the Centauro / V1100 Sporti series? 

 

Doing research now, and my head is spinning with flywheels/toothed rim etc....

 

Thanks 

Not sure.A reliable breaker here in the US suggested the Centuro when I started looking but didn't go far enough into it to ask about the Hub.You'll have to do some PN research unless someone can confirm.Have you tried TLM,Guzzibits,MI for opinions? I KNOW and have PROVEN that the Griso is correct,....

[Scud]

I must be incredibly strong! All those years of drumming have made me a God.The increased pull at the clutch lever is like a couple fleas trying to hold it back,...Not an issue ,...for most.Shouldn't effect anyone's decision on whether going to a 2plate.

 

 

As for differences in lever effort - lucky me, I have a Scura (with original single-plate clutch) and an 03 LeMans (with stock, dual-plate clutch) in the garage. So, in the spirit of scientific research, I tested the levers side by side. I use two-fingers to activate the clutch - and if I were blindfolded, I don't think I could tell the difference.

 

I can tell a little difference in performance on the road, but as I mentioned before, even that difference is not a big deal to me. In fact, I was just struggling to come up with some words to more accurately describe the difference. Maybe the difference is more pronounced with more aggressive riding (racing). I tend toward smooth, gentle shifts; I only use heavy throttle when the gears are already fully engaged.

 

Meanwhile - I figure I'll let the Scura run the stock flywheel/clutch until the next oil change (12,000 miles). I'm still leaning toward the RAM unit (if it becomes available in time). All in the name of research... 

[Camn]

I must be incredibly strong! All those years of drumming have made me a God

Maybe the difference to what Scud says was because the single plater on mine was 20.000 miles driven and 9 years old, but on the installed two plater only the flywheel and the toothed wheel for the starter were used parts, all other parts were new - also the springs. Last september, when I had all the 63 turns of Passo Stelvio through - my left hand was kind of sore...  Guzzi writes 6/2003 "...on all motorcycles with sintered single disc clutch, which are recognizable from a lower load on the handlebar lever...", but on that technical information they speak about Cali.  Also here, Scuds word is the trustworthy one, because he has the both options.

[mznyc]

 

 

 

 

I must be incredibly strong! All those years of drumming have made me a God

 "the single plater on mine was 20.000 miles driven and 9 years old, but on the installed two plater only the flywheel and the toothed wheel for the starter were used parts, all other parts were new - also the springs."

Almost the EXACT same conditions for me.

 

"Scuds word is the trustworthy one, because he has the both options."

I guess 10 years here 1200 posts and someone who has done the conversion gets you squat or is deemed untrustworthy,...Oh well,what do I know,...

I agree,doing a comparison side by side is the best way to compare,but I did ride the bike before and after the conversion so I did have SOMETHING to base it on.Not a theory.

 

[Camn]

deemed untrustworthy

I did not mean that. English is not my native language, I apologize if I offended you in any way. I tried to express that Scud can compare and describe how he feels the difference every day, I rely on the fact how I felt, when the clutch was changed for me.

 

 

I did ride the bike before and after the conversion

Me too. I liked the lighter feel of the single plater better. But of course the situation can be different with other bikes. I have nothing against other opinions nor do I condemn them in any way .

[footgoose]

I wish I had something to add re: replacement options. I'm following so I can learn the best answer for the future Tenni. What I can add is some experience with owning/riding both bikes- a single, and a double. I agree with scud, camn, and mznyc re: impressions. Side by side and parked, they seem really close in finger pull, I couldn't really tell. So I hooked up a basic 50# lift scale and unscientifically got 11-14# read for the LM, and surprisingly got 13-16# for the Tenni. A very crude device, but still, definitely a pound or 2 harder to pull.

 

Riding is a different story. Flywheel failure aside, the Tenni is more fun to operate. "lighter" in this instance, doesn't just mean strength of grip. Revs, disengage, engage, taken together as a whole experience has a quicker, snappy feel. More positive. Just a bit more of how a motorcycle should be. Which is essentially how I describe a V11LM. As scud says, one struggles to come up with good words to describe it, but in a perfect world I want a single plate that won't fail. Looking forward to your results, Paradiso.

[Paradiso]

I've been told that the correct Ram clutch can be sourced, but again it involves a wait of around 5 weeks.  It's a bit frustrating, especially given the fact that I've only ridden around 1000 miles on the bike.

Whether you go for the Ram unit or the twin plate option, it really shouldn't be this difficult or expensive to source a clutch on what is a relatively recent bike (2002-2003). Clutches are consumables.  Guzzi should be making a like for like replacement for the single clutch.

I've had less trouble getting parts for my 1973 Ducati single than for this. I'll keep you updated with any progress.

[Admin Jaap]

FWIW, my original V11 clutch fitted w/o problems to the Centauro engine. So vice versa must be the case also.

[slowkitty]

Thanks for the input. Managed to source a set of V11 plates and all, with new bolts and plates .  I will see what is the condition of the Scura clutch.

 

The new flywheel and the starter ring are not that readily available. Intermediate ring and pressure plates are easier. 

 

The RAM kit is available with a bit of waiting time.   

 

Thanks for the input, gents. 

[Scud]

 I agree with scud, camn, and mznyc re: impressions. Side by side and parked, they seem really close in finger pull, I couldn't really tell. So I hooked up a basic 50# lift scale and unscientifically got 11-14# read for the LM, and surprisingly got 13-16# for the Tenni. A very crude device, but still, definitely a pound or 2 harder to pull.

 

 

Those are the first empirical data I have seen on clutch lever effort. That is a surprising result, because of the oft-repeated statement that the lever for single plate clutches feels easier to pull than the dual-plates.  Data trumps "feel" and opinion.    Thanks for sharing that.

 

...and thanks to people like mznyc, Jaap, and others, who have hands-on experience with compatible parts.

 

 

it really shouldn't be this difficult or expensive to source a clutch on what is a relatively recent bike (2002-2003). Clutches are consumables. 

 

It seems that most people describe the Tenni/Scura problem as the clutch. However, the actual weak point (as has been pointed out in many threads) is the flywheel (non-consumable). Different flywheels work with different clutches. Once the potentially faulty flywheel is replaced (along with compatible clutch parts), it should last the life of the bike. Future clutch service should be less expensive - and easier to obtain parts.

[Paradiso]

While the flywheel is the main problem, the reality is that you can't get your clutch operating without a complete Ram unit or a set of replacement parts for a twin plate. Either option is expensive

Even if you had faith with your alloy freewheel, you couldn't buy a  friction plate for it.  Guzzi should be making replacement parts-they made and sold the bikes, they should give customers back up with parts.  Clutches are consumables and you cannot replace like for like as things stand.  The flywheel is a very simple part.  It would take someone at Guzzi an afternoon to design and make a replacement part, from steel if necessary.  It really isn't good enough that basic parts are not available at a reasonable cost.