Thread damage on sump ring - advice needed

[Scud]

I'm mid-point on installation of the Roper Plate on my Scura, following steps on this thread:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8985&hl=%20greg%20%20field%20%20roper

 

I've run into a problem with two bolts from the lower sump (pan) to threads on the upper sump part (square ring):

 

Here is a closeup of the worst one:

 

 

It appears to have seized and brought a chunk of thread out with it. I cannot easily thread a good bolt into this receiver.  

 

As lessons go, this one is about using anti-seize compound. However, it wasn't me....... 

 

Advice needed/Questions:

Repair or replace being the first one - obviously I need to replace the two damaged bolts, but can the threads on the square ring be saved?

Should I try a tap (will need to buy one) - or am I likely to need to visit a machine shop?

 

Background:

Since it was in hibernation for 12 years, and I had the dealer do the break-in service, this is my first oil change on the bike, and the first time the sump has been off since it left the factory.

Only two bolts for the lower sump came out hard, the balance easily.  All the bolts for the upper sump came out easily.

 

Just for entertainment value:  

The bike was a bit shy of 6,000 total miles, so I decided to take it for a spin this morning before service and installing the Roper Plate. There was a 0% chance of rain. I got absolutely soaked and did 80 miles in the rain... 

[czakky]

It is a well known fact that Guzzi uses some of the hardest Parmesan cheese known to man to make their bolts. I think I have broke at least two. I always replace with a non Guzzi bolt if I haven't already.

Beware of tapping because those castings are extremely soft use lots of oil.

For me all bolts get either anti-seize or loc-tite, Luigi on the other hand didn't seem to think so.

[Scud]

Thanks. I tapped them and it seems like it will be alright. I get really nervous about stripped or weakened things that hold the oil in the bike...

 

In other news, I can report that Nobleswood's ex-boots are waterproof. 

[Scud]

All buttoned up and WOT tested.

 

Here's a photo showing how much more room there is for oil in my bike (dipstick screwed in). 

 

 

I'm pretty sure all the oil drained out when I put the plate in, because all the lines had to be disconnected. I added 3.5 litres and ran it a while. The oil level is about at the full mark - so I could easily run with 4 litres or more. Basically, the original full mark becomes the new low-oil mark. More oil, less worries.

 

Having done the project, I finally understand what has already been explained many times:

 

Technically here:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13096

 

And with some extra flavor here:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14318&hl=%2Bdipstick+%2Broper+%2Bplate

 

Wow, there's a been a lot of discussion about this plate in past... Thanks again to Pete for a good product.

[JBBenson]

I also have a Roper plate sitting here waiting to be installed. I have done so much work on my bike in the past year that I just want to ride it and wring it out before doing anything else. Besides, I have never seen the oil light flicker while riding. Maybe because I ride like a Grandpa.

 

Having read this thread, I will dab some PB Blaster on each bolt of the upper sump before trying to undo them. I have dropped the pan when installing a hose clamp on the filter, and like Czakky I put anti-seize on every single bolt that I remove before reinstalling.

 

I have noticed that some bolts on my V11 come out easily, while the others right next to it are a struggle. Weird.

[Scud]

JB - I had the plate on my desk for a while, waiting for the oil change, which seemed like the most convenient time to install it.  I don't launch hard or do wheelies, but I have been to known to grab a handful of throttle on the way up a mountain.  For where we live, that's what convinced me to put the plate in.  It's easy to imagine sucking air into the oil pump during a fast, steep, uphill right-hander.

 

The upper sump came out easily for me (and the instructions I linked to in my first post were invaluable), but some bolts had a rubbery adhesive on them that needed to be removed. I used all new gaskets as recommended, but the gaskets I removed were in great shape.

 

Never seen the oil light flicker either, but I've ridden with some damn fast grandpas...

[Kiwi_Roy]

The lights don't flicker because the switches are so unreliable, I am on my third.

I read somewhere the rubber boot will make them last.

I have a gauge on mine, if I let the oil get too low it will drop to zero launching at a stoplight.

[gstallons]

That's a good feelin' !

[gstallons]

Use a bottoming tap if available to clean up these threads . Use new fasteners w/anti-seize  so you will not have this trouble again. On the holes with damaged threads you can install studs on these holes.* Make it look good and put studs opposite of these to give it symmetry . You can make your own studs w/threaded rod. It is cheaper in the long run . Used flanged nus & capscrews too ! 

 

 

* The reason being , you will be pulling on these threads rather than turning/twisting of a capscrew .

[Scud]

Use a bottoming tap if available to clean up these threads . Use new fasteners w/anti-seize  so you will not have this trouble again. On the holes with damaged threads you can install studs on these holes.* Make it look good and put studs opposite of these to give it symmetry . You can make your own studs w/threaded rod. It is cheaper in the long run . Used flanged nus & capscrews too ! 

 

 

* The reason being , you will be pulling on these threads rather than turning/twisting of a capscrew .

 

I already got it back together with new fasteners and anti-seize, and it seems to be holding (225 miles this morning). I am still concerned about the durability of the two that I tapped - the tap took a lot of material out of the worst of those. This is excellent advice about making studs, thanks. Now I know I don't have to be on the lookout for a used part. 

 

As for aesthetics, the oil-pan bolt heads are all hidden by the chin spoiler, so I can't see them anyway - but look at that "Roper-line."  

 

[gstallons]

You can still install the studs to make yourself happy .

[Scud]

Yes, I will get some threaded stock and nuts ASAP. I'll make studs next time it's off, or when I feel like it, whichever comes first. The oil pan does not even have to be removed to put the studs in.

 

This is a clever and effective solution... and did I mention it's also a time and money-saving solution? Thanks again.

[gstallons]

you"re welcome