andy york Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 what do you imagine is getting hot enough to shut the engine down ? this happened 3 times on a 20 mile ride yesterday evening. 1 - was not even 1 mile from the house. quick hiccup - recovered on its own 2 - Hit the freeway , rolling along , its like someone hits the kill switch. no quick recovery . get to the side and pop the seat. cycle the key - relays working but seems hot - fuel pump working put seat on and it fires right up 3 - in town and some traffic - like the kill switch again- pull in a parking lot -pop the seat- reals clicking but it does feel hot - fuel pump working (not hot ) - put seat on and it fires up. 4 - 2 hours later its dark and I'm headed home - it coughed 1 time but made it home with no more problems. don't really think the fuel pump is the issue since it is under the seat. It feels electrical to me. I must admit I did not change all my relays in over a year( lol) supposedly a relay either works or it doesn't , but I think they can become weak and have intermittent problems. Off to the garage to see if I can find my other New relays
JBBenson Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 I would think bad coil(s), engine temp sensor, dodgy relays, or even a bad ground Are the relays isolated from the frame with some rubber to absorb any vibration? I understand this is an issue with the location and stock bracket for the underseat relays. I made a 1/8" thick aluminum strip to mount them all together, and isolated it from the bike with rubber washers.
footgoose Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 very similar thing happened to me. once when I shut off for only 2 min. would not start. it was very hot outside, so I waited 5 min and restart. 2 weeks later after about 80 mi. ride, after I shut off, it would not restart, had to wait about 5 min and ... restart! this all makes me think it's vapor lock I had read about. A half hour later I shut her down again at a 10 min stop. would Not restart.. for 1 hour, completely cool, and she restarts, and 4 miles later while riding, it just turns off and will not restart. after deciding it must be something else, I swap the fuel pump relay and.... problem solved, till 2k mi. later. shut her off, no restart. swap relay, on my way. it's been good for 500 or so miles. This experience tells me that relays can be intermittent before failing. I carried spare relays with me, and will continue to do so.
docc Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Easy thing to try first - OMRON: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=-987&y=-73&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=z2247-ND
Kiwi_Roy Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 The first thing I would do is determine if it's ECU related (this includes the pump) Monitor the petcock with a small lamp, if the lamp goes out it's related to the safety circuit, not the ECU Change relay 1 and 3 for 4 and 5, to eliminate the relays.
Scud Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 rolling along , its like someone hits the kill switch. no quick recovery. I had a problem like that on a BMW. After much searching (and trying to identify the leading indicators like you are doing), the problem turned out to be the kill switch. It would make (or break) contact at inopportune times - when it got jostled the wrong way. After replacing a broken spring and cleaning the contacts in the switch, the problem was solved.
footgoose Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 The first thing I would do is determine if it's ECU related (this includes the pump) Monitor the petcock with a small lamp, if the lamp goes out it's related to the safety circuit, not the ECU Change relay 1 and 3 for 4 and 5, to eliminate the relays. this makes me wonder if trouble in related components contribute to, or even cause relays to fail?? or do they always just fall flat on their own?
Kiwi_Roy Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 rolling along , its like someone hits the kill switch. no quick recovery. I had a problem like that on a BMW. After much searching (and trying to identify the leading indicators like you are doing), the problem turned out to be the kill switch. It would make (or break) contact at inopportune times - when it got jostled the wrong way. After replacing a broken spring and cleaning the contacts in the switch, the problem was solved. The lamp wired to the petcock fuse will identify where the problem lies, if the problem lies in the ignition switch, kill switch or stand logic the lamp will flicker or turn off. I use a 12V LED which I put it the pivot hole of the front brake lever. The wire runs back over the tank to the petcock fuse or any other point I want to monitor.
moto fugazzi Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 Roy had his awesome idea of adding LED's to the relays, so you know when one is bad. Why don't they make stock relays like that? They have fuses that do a similar thing (they light up when they blow). Seems like an opportunity for someone to make a few bucks. Ken
Kiwi_Roy Posted July 11, 2015 Posted July 11, 2015 My V11 Sport has LEDs mounted in the relay base to monitor the 87 contact, if that seems like too much trouble you can add them to the relay itself/ 87 - 1k resistor - LED - small wire run to a ground point. The most useful relay to monitor is R3 http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/Kiwi_Roy/slideshow/Relay%20LEDs Pause at the Test Relay sketch shows how to do a Non permanent fix. 1
docc Posted July 12, 2015 Posted July 12, 2015 Roy's tests are always the right thing to do! Otherwise, could this be a symptom of the oh-so-common ignition switch trouble (easy fix) ?
andy york Posted July 14, 2015 Author Posted July 14, 2015 no news yet I'll get back to it soon later
docc Posted July 14, 2015 Posted July 14, 2015 no news yet I'll get back to it soon later I know a guy that makes house calls. "Have DVOM - Will Travel"
andy york Posted July 15, 2015 Author Posted July 15, 2015 blimey I guess it is a whole Saturday and a couple of 6 packs to wire less to all the relays. So I wired up a little test LED but i surely don't know an easy way to stab in to a relay circuit. any tricks those in the know would like to share. I think I want to start with the ECU relay. It does not Spit and sputter as running out of fuel will do. Last time I checked the ignition key wiring it was A ok. Main 30 fuse does not appear to be heating up . could be she doesn't want a mount in this kinda heat !!!! been wringing wet all day !!
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