Thoughts on handling and "squirrellyness"

[JBBenson]

I bought a 2001 red-frame V11 Sport on impulse, having owned 2 other Guzzis already. I didn’t know much about the V11, but discovered this site, and others, and all have been very helpful in managing the…um, peculiarities of the model.

 

I discovered that the red-frames have a reputation for being “squirrelly”, due to the shorter wheelbase and the steeper rake of the fork. My stock bike never handled that well, it always felt restless and vague in the corners. I eventually up installing new fork springs and valves, and a new rear shock, and new tires, running a 160 on the back. 

 

It was better, but the bike still felt vague and nervous at the same time. Well, it is a red-frame, right? They are know to be “squirrelly”, so the problem must be “operator error”.

 

Since I bought it, the fork tube caps were always set flush with the top triple clamp. The PDF manual I have showed the fork tubes set the same way. But I did some reading on raising the fork tubes in the triple clamps to “quicken steering” on the heavy and locomotive-like V11 Lemans series, and how those that did so, were happy with it.

 

But I have a red-frame, right? It is already “squirrelly”; it didn’t need any more, does it?

 

Turns out, it did.

 

As I said, the handling never felt quite right, so I raising the forks by about 8-10mm and it really improved the feel. It was more precise but more predictable. My speeds went up. I could better feel what the front end was doing. I was more confident. I sound like an ad for some amazing new pill.

 

I thought about it: why did making the steering “sharper” make the “squirrelly” bike feel more steady and more accurate? I think it was because the factory-set higher front end, and the lower back end (due to the 160 tire) didn’t help things. Together they gave the bike a “nose-high” attitude that made it uncertain feeling, with little or no feedback. 

 

This caused me to always be making corrections to keep on my line. But the hazy feel made me always over-correct, sending me too far one way, necessitating me to quickly overcorrect again back the other way.  This created a wobbly line through every corner, and a feeling of twitchiness and oscillation that I interpreted as “squirrellyness”. 

 

The “sharpening” of the geometry by raising the forks let me feel and point the front end better, so there was no constant, small corrections necessary. The bike just went where I pointed it, no fuss, predictable and balanced. A counterintuitive, seemingly tiny change that made a big difference. 

 

Anyway, those are my observations. The bike is getting better and better.

[gavo]

I have a rosso mandello 2001 which I believe has the same frame geometry as the red frame models and although I wouldn't say squirrelly it felt more like a pinball bouncing from one road depression to the next not to mention the harsh ride.

I raised the forks 10mm, replaced the springs with progressive springs more suited to my weight and put in a slightly lighter fork oil.

I replaced the back tyre with a 160/60 and had the rear shock re-valved and a slightly heavier spring for my weight.

It now held a line much better and didn't bounce from divot to divot but the ride was still a bit harsh so I started backing off the dampening both rebound and compression.

Dampening is now back at lowest levels the smoothness of ride has improved and despite what you might think it doesn't bounce down the road.

Thats with Marzocchi forks and Sach shock.

[PDoz]

The stock springs on mine were bizzare - way too soft a rate up front, but paradoxically too long, and the rear spring also seemed too soft when I worked out the sag figures. I started by investing in a decent shock with appropriate spring, and this transformed the handling. Getting better fork springs was the icing on the cake. Now she's rock solid over imperfections, jumps smoothly, yet changes line mid corner almost too quickly if I want her to. I reckon there's nothing wrong with the bikes design, but the stock suspension was specced by an apprentice with a really bad hangover. Apparently he now works on the ducati scrambler project.....

[docc]

+ 1 on getting the correct spring rates and setting an "appropriate" sag; raising the rear and weighting the front is good medicine!

 

Just to throw in a little RedFrame voodoo, peer up under your lower triple clamp and find the part number . . . ?

[docc]

+ 1 on getting the correct spring rates and setting an "appropriate" sag; raising the rear and weighting the front is good medicine!

 

Just to throw in a little RedFrame voodoo, peer up under your lower triple clamp and find the part number . . . ?

I ask about the part number on the triple tree because there was , reportedly, a change from the very earliest RedFrame Sports that softened the rake 0.5˚.

 

If yours is "pre-softened", it may be a little harder to set up just right.