6 speed pushrod seals

[kmac33]

All,

Wanting to glean some wisdom from those that have had the "pleasure" of replacing the pushrod seal(s) on a 6 speed. My 2000 V11 Sport is leaking trans fluid out of the clutch slave. From scouring previous posts on this forum and others, it is clear that I have fluid making it's way up the pushrod and need "new" seal(s). From the parts diagrams, the only pushrod  "seals" that I see are the "clutch control cylinder o-ring"(#10 on the diagram) and #7 - gasket ring seal.

Trying the "easy fix" first, I pulled the rear end off the bike, removed the clutch slave and replaced the clutch control cylinder o-ring. That did not fix the leak. Process of deduction means the gasket ring seal is the culprit. To me, it looks like the gasket ring seal resides on the clutch side of the transmission and will require either motor removal or transmission removal to access. I was hoping to confirm this before taking things apart to that degree.

Thanks!

[grossohc]

Certainly looks like it going by the diagram, unless someone knows different. Having problems with my clutch as well and will have to do this, so let us know how you get on.

Gary

[Lucky Phil]

It wont be the seal at the front. This will be mainly a dust/grease seal. Clutch fluid wont really make its way up the rod. I just pulled the slave off my spare transmission and if the slave seal is leaking it will come out of the small weep channel on the face of the transmission where the slave bolts up to.

The seal you have changed isnt the slave cylinder seal its a piston and seal assembly that seals transmission fluid. The slave cylinder pushes against this piston and a quick look in the parts manual doesnt reveal a breakdown for the Grimeca slave cylinder.

 

Ciao

[kmac33]

It wont be the seal at the front. This will be mainly a dust/grease seal. Clutch fluid wont really make its way up the rod. I just pulled the slave off my spare transmission and if the slave seal is leaking it will come out of the small weep channel on the face of the transmission where the slave bolts up to.

The seal you have changed isnt the slave cylinder seal its a piston and seal assembly that seals transmission fluid. The slave cylinder pushes against this piston and a quick look in the parts manual doesnt reveal a breakdown for the Grimeca slave cylinder.

 

Ciao

Thanks for the reply Phil. My leak is transmission fluid - not clutch fluid. I know the slave cylinder is good. Since changing out the o-ring did not stop the transmission fluid leak (which could only be coming along the push rod), I know there has to be another seal - and just trying to confirm it is #7 in the parts diagram, and that pulling the motor or transmission is required to get to this seal. WIth the 5 speeds, at least the 2 conical pushrod seals were very obvious and accessable by just pulling the clutch slave off and pulling out the pushrod.

[Lucky Phil]

 

It wont be the seal at the front. This will be mainly a dust/grease seal. Clutch fluid wont really make its way up the rod. I just pulled the slave off my spare transmission and if the slave seal is leaking it will come out of the small weep channel on the face of the transmission where the slave bolts up to.

The seal you have changed isnt the slave cylinder seal its a piston and seal assembly that seals transmission fluid. The slave cylinder pushes against this piston and a quick look in the parts manual doesnt reveal a breakdown for the Grimeca slave cylinder.

 

Ciao

Thanks for the reply Phil. My leak is transmission fluid - not clutch fluid. I know the slave cylinder is good. Since changing out the o-ring did not stop the transmission fluid leak (which could only be coming along the push rod), I know there has to be another seal - and just trying to confirm it is #7 in the parts diagram, and that pulling the motor or transmission is required to get to this seal. WIth the 5 speeds, at least the 2 conical pushrod seals were very obvious and accessable by just pulling the clutch slave off and pulling out the pushrod.

 

Oh ok sorry, re read the OP. If trans oil is leaking from the front seal then wouldnt it be dripping from the Bellhousing?

My assumption is that there is no point to oil being allowed to find its way into the input shaft therefore the front seal is more for sealing dust etc from the clutch side like a ducati dry clutch.

Wouldnt it be more likely to be the front gearbox input shaft seal if anything? Seal 17 page 44 of the manual ("transmission cage")

Ciao

[kmac33]

From a couple of conversations, including a Guzzi knowledgable mechanic (that just has not ever had to open up a V11 6 speed), if the input shaft seal was the issue, I would be getting enough transfluid into the clutch that 1.fluid would be coming out of the bellhousing weep hole and 2. the clutch would almost definitely be slipping due to that fluid.

Looks like I'm just going to have to tear the bike down to find out for sure.

[Tom M]

Before tearing it all down you might want to try checking the vent to see if it's working.  If it's clogged you could be building pressure when the tranny warms up so it could be forcing fluid past the weakest seal. 

 

I know it's a longshot but it's a lot easier than tearing the whole thing apart.

[kmac33]

Before tearing it all down you might want to try checking the vent to see if it's working.  If it's clogged you could be building pressure when the tranny warms up so it be forcing fluid past the weakest seal. 

 

I know it's a longshot but it's a lot easier than tearing the whole thing apart.

Thanks for the suggestion Tom. The vent was one of the first potential causes checked off the list. The PO was keeping the trans over filled - I had hoped that, or the vent was the cause, but didn't get that lucky

[mznyc]

If it's not bad enough that you can still ride it safely,I would wait to the end of the season but order parts now because of possible lag time.

Pulling the tranny isn't that bad.

Remove rear wheel,drive shaft and swingarm and you have access.A dozen or so bolts and she's off.Could be done on a weekend if you have all parts on hand.Also gives you a chance to service driveshaft and swingarm bearings,wheel bearings,etc,....

[kmac33]

I finally "solved" the transmission fluid leaking out of the clutch slave problem, and it was remarkably simple - especially considering how much "labor" went into it. To summarize again: bike was leaking transmission fluid from the clutch slave weep hole when I bought it. I took the rear end off the bike, pulled the clutch slave off, pulled out the push rod "clutch control cylinder" and replaced the o-ring. When doing this, there was 1 washer on the clutch slave side on the control cylinder. I reassembled in the exact same fashion. I did not pull out the entire push rod and all associated hardware at this time - in hindsight I should have. The leak remained.

After pulling the transmission completely and being able to "play" with the push rod travel, it became very obvious that there is a very specific distance that the control cylinder moves back and forth in the push rod tunnel where the o-ring makes contact and does it's job. go just a little to far towards the clutch and it goes too far into an "open" area. It dawned on me that the PO had at some point puled out the control cylinder, washers and push rod and had not reassembled in the correct order, and that one washer on the wrong side of the control disc was allowing the disc to move "just too far" towards the clutch and that was allowing the transmission fluid past the o-ring.

I reassembled the push rod, washers and control disc in the correct order, (picture for reference) put everything back together and, presto leak solved.

If I had just taken things apart a bit further the first time I changed the o-ring, and had put things back together with all the washers in the correct order, I would have fixed the leak the first time. On the bright side, I can now pull the transmission quickly if I ever have to do. I also took the disassembly to get the transmission out as an opportunity to restore the Mistral, carbon fiber cans, replace the stock cross-over with a Mistral cross-over and had the header pipes ceramic coated. I also installed a Power Commander 3.

So now, no leak, exhaust looks and sounds incredible and the bike is running WAY better than it ever has.

[JBBenson]

Good job. It is super satisfying when you finally find a problem and fix it.

 

It often requires forgetting what you think you know (like it was put together right in the first place) and re-thinking it entirely, forgetting any assumptions.

 

Like you said, now you are really good at removing the transmission. Consider making a new thread about it, with step-by-step instructions, so others (like me) might avoid the usual pitfalls when we are faced with doing it.......please?