Parasitic Draw - healthy range?

[Lucky Phil]

It's the r/r, taking up all of the 22 mA of draw. Tested the diodes and they are passing in both directions. The good news is none of the other circuits are leaking, including the GPS speedo.

 

So:

 

– do I keep it and put it on a relay to keep it from leaking when the bike is off?

 

– Or is it just gonna die anyway, and may as well replace it? This pisses me off, it's not even two years old and I barely put a few hundred miles on it.

 

– If I do replace it, should I give Electrosports another shot? I've heard good things about the products offered by Rick's Motorsports...

 

– If It do replace it, should I wire it up directly again, or should put in on a relay to be safe? I'd honestly rather not add yet another bunch of wires to get it switched on a relay. I'd be fine with just pulling the fuse when I park it without putting it on a battery tender.

 

Decisions decisions.

I enquired with Electrosport about the ESR510 and they advised me the direct draw from the battery depowered was approx 0.007A.

Which means it should drain a 10amp battery in about 60days, give or take.

Would rather it didnt do this but if you are going to relay it you may as well stick to the original through the headlight relay deal.

I'm just trying to decide which way to go myself as my 3 year old Oddessey battery looks like its suffering from overcharging.

BTW, "sealed" battery means sealed from topping up, not sealed from leakage.

 

Ciao

[motoguzznix]

There is a very slight draw from the ECU - you can stop this by pulling out fuse F1.

 

Since I have a new regulator, the drain from the battery is very small. 3 to 4 weeks of standstill is no problem now. 

[sp838]

Replacing it with a universal single phase MOSFET unit from Rick's Motorsports.

[docc]

. . . . my 3 year old Oddessey battery looks like its suffering from overcharging.

 

How would that look? As in, how would we measure that overcharging effect?

[Lucky Phil]

 

. . . . my 3 year old Oddessey battery looks like its suffering from overcharging.

 

How would that look? As in, how would we measure that overcharging effect?

 

Its leaking fluid (water) a byproduct of the charging action I believe. Its normally contained within the case and reabsorbed but due to the overcharging its been venting then leaking onto the swingarm...not pretty as it contains some acid also.

Checked my charging system and its producing around 14 volts until you turn the headlights on then it jumps to almost 15 volts. The battery doesnt like this obviously.

Checked the voltage drop in the circuit at the regs voltage sense point and its 0.04Volts without the lights on and around 0.75volts when you turn the lights on. Replaced the "lights" and "start" relays just to  see and no difference.

Is this the dreaded light system/charging sense line voltage drop issue? Is my bike typical,or do I have a high resitance problem thats pulling the voltage down on that circuit?

With the lights on the voltage drop across the battery (new) is only 0.02volts.

BTW as i mentioned in a previous post a "sealed" battery only means sealed from adding fluid, they can still leak. If you remove the cover from the Oddessey PC545 it just has little rubber caps sealing the cells which are held down in place by the plastic cover(easy to remove). If you  have an overcharging issue as I seem to then they can still make quite a mess. 

Ive ordered a new Electrosports ESR515 reg as the original is 15 years old and probably past its best but I think the voltage drop issue is the real problem.

 

Ciao 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Phill, as you have seen the Voltage drop through the headlight relay (it must be about 1 Volt) is causing the overcharging because the regulator thinks the battery is flat so it cranks up the charge.

On my 2001 V11 Sport the headlight current also passes through the normally closed contact of the start relay (most bikes use that contact to just feed the headlight relay coil)

Eventually it will take care of itself by melting the diode leads off inside the regulator then you will have an under charging issue.  charging current to Voltage is some sort of exponential relationship

 

I found just wiggling the relays in their sockets caused the Voltage to drop back to normal (about 0.6)

 

One option is to add headlight relays powered direct from the battery bypassing the existing wiring so you don't get the Voltage drop

Or fit a direct connected regulator like the Electrosport. then put a single relay in the headlight bucket to select High/Low filament, you will notice a significant increase in brightness.

[Lucky Phil]

Phill, as you have seen the Voltage drop through the headlight relay (it must be about 1 Volt) is causing the overcharging because the regulator thinks the battery is flat so it cranks up the charge.

On my 2001 V11 Sport the headlight current also passes through the normally closed contact of the start relay (most bikes use that contact to just feed the headlight relay coil)

Eventually it will take care of itself by melting the diode leads off inside the regulator then you will have an under charging issue.  charging current to Voltage is some sort of exponential relationship

 

I found just wiggling the relays in their sockets caused the Voltage to drop back to normal (about 0.6)

 

One option is to add headlight relays powered direct from the battery bypassing the existing wiring so you don't get the Voltage drop

Or fit a direct connected regulator like the Electrosport. then put a single relay in the headlight bucket to select High/Low filament, you will notice a significant increase in brightness.

So Roy, all this voltage drop is through the start and headlight relays,is that right? havent pulled the relays and bridged them (my 2000 model has both) to check,but if you say its so,I wont bother.

I replaced both with new Bosch relays to make sure one or both didnt have dirty contacts but it seems the only proper solution is as you described or rewire 2 headlight relays into the system.There is an old thread about this tyhat had a neat job I recall.

I have already ordered an ESR515 reg which is the same as the 510 but with standard wiring connections. I would prefer to have the reg isolated when the bike is not in use.

The Guzzi wiring is such a dogs breakfast I would prefer not adding to the mess of it but I may have to bite the bullet.

I note in the later bikes the start relay is only used for switching power to the headlight relay which is an improvement. Not sure how physically difficult an neat it would be to mod the older system like mine to update to this config.

I guess the other advantage to  the headlight relay solution is the reduced load on the headlight switch also.

Ciao 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes Start relay to headlight relay, the regulator taps into the red/black wire half way along the tank (lets call it the Tap Point) then I think it splits again one wire going to the connector on the left, one wire going to connector on right,

The (Tap Point) is where the Voltage is held to about 13.8 Volts by the regulator so if you change the headlight bulb for a higher Wattage the battery has to put out more Voltage to achieve 13.8 at the Tap Point.

By the same token if you take load off the headlight circuit e.g. with separate headlight relays fed from the battery the battery Voltage drops to 13.8 Volts.

 

 

Adding two relays powered from the battery into the headlight bucket is one way of reducing the Voltage drop across the switch and tiny wires to and fro, I reckon my light went up about 20%

The other option which I prefer is to tap into the wire from headlight relay by the LH connector and run it to a single relay in the bucket.

Energize the relay for High, default back to Low

Use one of your old relays.

 

There is a switched battery Voltage source, Relay 4 the ECU there's very little load on that relay and the regulator black wire only draws about 15 milliamps. If you add a diode in series it will boost the Voltage up from 13.8 to 14.4, don't even think about it with a direct connected type.

 

Relay No 3 is probably spare on your bike (if you have done away with stand switch), it could be used between a direct connect regulator and battery

 

Yes, removing the start relay from the headlight circuit can be done, if you elect to go with two relays in the bucket powered direct from the battery it's not necessary as the Voltage drop is now low.

 

 With just one relay it's not as simple because the Start relay is powered direct from the battery via a fuse, the headlight would stay On with the key Off

Most Guzzis feed the Start relay from the ignition switch, that is stupid IMHO because the start solenoid draws about 50 Amps as it slams the starter into mesh, that's what causes Startus Interuptus in all other guzzis right to the latest model.

None of the schematics show the solenoid correctly, it has two coils, one draws 40 Amps, the other 10 Amps.

[footgoose]

ok. I need to bring down the education level for a moment. The more I read about this, the more lost I become. I'll admit it, I don't follow this. Could someone please explain to me... is something wrong with our bikes? Another poor design feature? If all is working properly, does something still need fixed? My very basic knowledge tells me you are talking about a short, albeit intermittent. ?? And, couldn't those of us who have a winter lay up just disconnect the battery? Or put in an off/on switch close to the battery?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Footgoose, your Guzzi is fine, there are a few minor problems with charging that's all.


The regulator is not well grounded I recommend adding a no 12 wire between the regulator case and a bolt on the engine.
Some experience overcharging due to excessive Voltage drop between the battery positive terminal and regulator black wire. (Normally about 0.6 Volts)



The Ducati Energia regulator draws about 15 milliamperes on the black wire so it's connected after the headlight relay so it doesn't run the battery flat.
After market regulators directly connected to the battery draw less than 1 milliamp but even that will flatten the battery over the winter, if you ride the bike every week or two no need to disconnect, I pull mine off over winter.

[footgoose]

Thank you sir. I'll add the 12 wire. And keep reading

[sp838]

Phil, ditch that POS and get a lithium ion battery from EarthX.

[JRD]

Better yet, drop it off at my house, I promise to ride it at least once a day down here in Florida all winter to keep the battery charged up for you.

 

 

Jerry

[Lucky Phil]

Phil, ditch that POS and get a lithium ion battery from EarthX.

I looked into these a few years ago and the general view was that they dont handle the vibration of a Guzzi too well, there are cold start issues in winter, they need a decent charging system and they are expensive. I have one in my Suzuki track bike and its fine but thats not exactly real world use.

 

Ciao

[sp838]

Nonsense. But, suit yourself I guess.