Synthetic Oil

[Lucky Phil]

8 hours ago, p6x said:

I was going to come back with Motul, because I think I found my oil of choice.

I found a post from a fellow who runs a Moto Guzzi California, and he quoted the Motul 7100 10W-60 as his go to oil. I was intrigued because 10W-60 would seem to be ideal for the Guzzi V11.

I checked the Motul website, and found they recommend the Motul 5100 15W-50 for V-Twin.

Like you, I looked for a technical datasheet but what is posted on their website but they only state they are API and JASO compliant; nothing about ASTM or ISO tests.

On the French version of the website, I have seen a few questions being answered. I am going to ask them if they would be willing to share the Viscosity Index as a very minimum.

I will keep you posted.

I like that you can purchase the oil in jugs of 4 liters, since we need 3.5 liters + Oil Filter, that fits perfectly.

I'm not interested in using an oil that doesn't supply a TDS with ALL the information. The TDS's you often see these days dont list ZDDP content and other details. No details, no sale. 

I use a group 4 10W-60 in my Centauro engine and a 0W-40 Group 4 in the V11 engine.

Ciao

[p6x]

24 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

I'm not interested in using an oil that doesn't supply a TDS with ALL the information. The TDS's you often see these days dont list ZDDP content and other details. No details, no sale. 

I use a group 4 10W-60 in my Centauro engine and a 0W-40 Group 4 in the V11 engine.

Ciao

I understand.

While I feel the same, I think those who look for a product data sheet are a minority among the consumers.

We will see if Motul provides the data, or even answer my query.

[andy york]

I usually stay out of these discussions....oh well

https://www.schaefferoil.com

data sheets are on the web site

 

[gstallons]

That is good lubricant !

[docc]

4 hours ago, p6x said:

I followed the link, but I did not see any engine oil for motorcycles, did I miss it, or do they only cater for four wheels? I see they have 2 stroke oil, but mainly for karts.

https://www.redlineoil.com/20w50-motorcycle-oil

[Chuck]

Redline is good sheet, mon.

[p6x]

9 hours ago, docc said:

https://www.redlineoil.com/20w50-motorcycle-oil

You would think that every oil manufacturer could publish their product's data, but it seems it is not as much important as telling the consumers "my oil is the best".

Motul has not responded yet, but with what we went through, nothing is the same anyway.

 

[p6x]

I spoke to MPH today, and they use Liqui Moly lubricant.... SAE 5W-40.

This one: https://products.liqui-moly.com/motorbike-4t-synth-5w-40-street-race-2.html?___store=limo_b2b_com_en

Here's the product data sheet: https://pim.liqui-moly.de/pdf/en_US/liqui/43/P000261

This is what they use on all the motorbikes trusted in their care, unless you have stipulations with regards to the oil.

Who knew Liqui Moly would be popular in Texas???

[Tomchri]

Don't see any mention Torco oil ?   Had 15 gallons of 20-50 T4R . I liked it a lot, but what do i know ( they have a d sheet ) 

Cheers Tom. 

[p6x]

On 10/25/2021 at 5:23 PM, andy york said:

I usually stay out of these discussions....oh well

https://www.schaefferoil.com

data sheets are on the web site

 

I found funny their "European Engine" category....

I did not know engines had nationality, lol!

More seriously, when I was going to school, the US engine was the high capacity, multi cylinders, while the European engine was low capacity and less cylinders. The writing on the wall was European design got the same power with less. The US engines were more robust though. Like a lot of these assertions, I always thought it was a myth.

[p6x]

There are several lubricants which make the cut in this thread.

However, what would be really useful is an understanding of what the data sheets really tell us.

If I am correct, one of the parameter that indicates the oil quality is its Viscosity Index. Although, only looking at the highest number can be deceptive, since the VI is computed using kinematic viscosity results at two reference temperatures. You may have better performance at one or the other temperature.

Synthetic oils benefits: (From the Elf Lubricant Website)

Why use synthetic oil? Benefits of synthetic oil are numerous:

• Better low- and high-temperature viscosity performance at extreme service temperatures.
• Better viscosity index (VI).
• Better chemical and shear stability.
• Decreased evaporation loss.
• Resistance to oxidation, thermal breakdown, and oil sludge problems.
• Possibility to extended drain intervals, with the environmental benefit of less used oil waste generated.
• Improved fuel economy in certain engine configurations.
• Better lubrication during extreme cold weather starts.
• Possibly a longer engine life.
• Superior protection against "ash" and other deposit formation in engine hot spots (in particular in turbochargers and superchargers) for less oil burnoff and reduced chances of damaging oil passageway clogging.
• Increased horsepower and torque due to less initial drag on engine.
• Last benefit among the advantages of synthetic oil : Improved Fuel Economy (FE).

Synthetic oil vs regular oil : is synthetic oil better than regular oil? (from the Elf Lubricant Website:

1. You’ll discover below the different types of oils:
2. Mineral oil is most commonly called as regular oil. These oils are produced by untreated mineral refining (Group I)
3. Semi-synthetic oils or synthetic-based oils are a blend of oils produced by untreated mineral refining (Group I) and composed of oils produced by mineral refining with chemical treatment (Group III)
4. Using “synthetic oil” terminology can be sometimes confusing as it might concern 2 different categories.
5. Synthetic technology oils are oils produced by mineral refining with chemical treatment (Group III)
6. 100% synthetic oils are oils with 100% synthetic molecules (Group IV and V) without any mineral refining

[p6x]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:25 AM, Lucky Phil said:

Can you provide a comprehensive data sheet for Motul oil, any Motul full synthetic oil? I've never been able to locate one. 

Ciao

Here it is:

For our V11 engine, Motul recommends the SAE 5W-40; data sheet with the kinematic viscosity and VI on page 2

https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/7100_4t_5w-40_en_fr_motul_20210305.pdf

When you compare the ASTM D445 viscosity tests with the 10W-60, https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/7100_4t_10w-60_en_fr_motul_20210305.pdf , you can't help but notice the huge result difference of the 40 deg C test (160.1 mm2/s versus 79.6 mm2/s , which ultimately influences the VI 181 versus 175.

However they are not providing the HTHS test results.

I will attempt to make a spreadsheet with all the V11 recommended fully synthetic oils from all the brands.

[docc]

FWIW, early V11 viscosity specification is 20W-50. Later the spec changed even though the motor did not change appreciably.

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, p6x said:

Here it is:

For our V11 engine, Motul recommends the SAE 5W-40; data sheet with the kinematic viscosity and VI on page 2

https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/7100_4t_5w-40_en_fr_motul_20210305.pdf

When you compare the ASTM D445 viscosity tests with the 10W-60, https://azupim01.motul.com/media/motulData/DO/base/7100_4t_10w-60_en_fr_motul_20210305.pdf , you can't help but notice the huge result difference of the 40 deg C test (160.1 mm2/s versus 79.6 mm2/s , which ultimately influences the VI 181 versus 175.

However they are not providing the HTHS test results.

I will attempt to make a spreadsheet with all the V11 recommended fully synthetic oils from all the brands.

The missing link here in the data sheet is for the V11 is ZDDP (zinc) content for flat tappet engines. Phosphorous and sulphur from memory a a partial substitute but flat tappet oils usually have a minimum 1000ppm of zinc and the other two to help offset the reduction in zinc not replace it. Any oil designed to be kind to a CAT converter isn't going to be kind to flat tappets. 

Ciao 

[docc]

25 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

The missing link here in the data sheet is for the V11 is ZDDP (zinc) content for flat tappet engines. Phosphorous and sulphur from memory a a partial substitute but flat tappet oils usually have a minimum 1000ppm of zinc and the other two to help offset the reduction in zinc not replace it. Any oil designed to be kind to a CAT converter isn't going to be kind to flat tappets. 

Ciao 

This is why motor oils rated for diesel engines can be favorable to flat tappet motors.