MG Cycle oil pump upgrade

[Craig]

Has anyone used this pump?  Did you get significantly better flow/pressure?  I am slowly building out my engine into...something, I don't know.  I just received a set of Caruso timing gears and "while I am there" I am thinking about upgrading the oil pump.  Curious as to any real experience with it.

 

Next year I will try to swing some Carillo rods...

[docc]

It just sounds so cool to say, "Carillo rods."

 

Like saying "Crane cam."

[GuzziMoto]

While I have not used that oil pump, I am not sure why you would want more flow or pressure unless you were pushing the motor way beyond stock performance and use. More oil pressure and / or more oil flow does not in and of itself make anything better unless you did not have enough flow and / or pressure before.

I don't think it could hurt, especially if you are building a performance motor. But I would not start there. Have you mounted a gauge to see what you have now for pressure?

Substantially more flow can only happen with changes to the oiling system, enlarging the passageways, otherwise you just get more pressure and a tiny bit more flow.

I have been involved in building a few race motors, mostly Ducati's. We have never upgraded the oil pump for more flow and / or pressure. We did downgrade the oiling system on a Harley we built to reduce flow / pressure, freeing up power. It takes power to run the oil pump and in a spec class where you can't just throw power parts at it reducing power loss becomes more important.

I have an upgraded oil pump to put in my Daytona (haven't gotten to it yet) but that is because the stock pump drive gear has a habit of catastophic failure. I have a new gear and a new pump, the gear is from Caruso. I also have a Caruso set for the wifes V11, also have not gotten to it yet. I need more time.....

This is just my opinion, just offering my experiences.

[Craig]

While I have not used that oil pump, I am not sure why you would want more flow or pressure unless you were pushing the motor way beyond stock performance and use. More oil pressure and / or more oil flow does not in and of itself make anything better unless you did not have enough flow and / or pressure before.

I don't think it could hurt, especially if you are building a performance motor. But I would not start there. Have you mounted a gauge to see what you have now for pressure?

Substantially more flow can only happen with changes to the oiling system, enlarging the passageways, otherwise you just get more pressure and a tiny bit more flow.

I have been involved in building a few race motors, mostly Ducati's. We have never upgraded the oil pump for more flow and / or pressure. We did downgrade the oiling system on a Harley we built to reduce flow / pressure, freeing up power. It takes power to run the oil pump and in a spec class where you can't just throw power parts at it reducing power loss becomes more important.

I have an upgraded oil pump to put in my Daytona (haven't gotten to it yet) but that is because the stock pump drive gear has a habit of catastophic failure. I have a new gear and a new pump, the gear is from Caruso. I also have a Caruso set for the wifes V11, also have not gotten to it yet. I need more time.....

This is just my opinion, just offering my experiences.

 

Mostly I was asking because I will be in there putting the Caruso gears in.  I don't have any indications of a problem.  I think I will skip it this time around.

[MartyNZ]

I notice that the workshop manual for my V11 says that the gear height is 16mm, while that aftermarket pump claims to have "15mm impeller for high flow volume".
I cannot see how the aftermarket pump can have "high flow volume" using 1mm narrower gears unless the gear diameter is larger than the stock pump.
Are you sure the aftermarket pump is better than stock? Perhaps it is larger than earlier pump versions in the engine on older models, but not the V11.
Shop manual ref Sect M, Oil Pump 7, Pg14 says
Gear height 15.973 - 16.032.
Housing cavity 16.032 - 16.075.
Gear diameter 26.25 - 26.29.

[Craig]

I notice that the workshop manual for my V11 says that the gear height is 16mm, while that aftermarket pump claims to have "15mm impeller for high flow volume".

I cannot see how the aftermarket pump can have "high flow volume" using 1mm narrower gears unless the gear diameter is larger than the stock pump.

Are you sure the aftermarket pump is better than stock?

Shop manual ref Sect M, Oil Pump 7, Pg14 says

Gear height 15.973 - 16.032.

Housing cavity 16.032 - 16.075.

Gear diameter 26.25 - 26.29.

 

 

Guzziology says the same thing.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I think most of the oil squirts back into the sump from the pressure relief valve without going to the bearings.

Adding a larger pump just squirts more back surely.

[Lucky Phil]

I think most of the oil squirts back into the sump from the pressure relief valve without going to the bearings.

Adding a larger pump just squirts more back surely.

The oil pressure relief valve is there primarily to protect the system in cold weather starts. If its not present the oil pressure can go over 120psi and do things like pop the filter seal (Ducatis known for it occasionally even with the valve) and rupture the oil cooler if fitted.

During normal operation with engine oil up to temp the OP valve will generally be closed even at high revs.

So if you add hydraulic lifters and or oil squirtes for the pistons etc you will often need a larger capacity pump to maintain the same OP or as I said drive it faster by a ratio change.

There are a lot of design variables here and the limiting factor can be oil pump inlet and or delivery size etc. 

The common mistake is to value pressure over flow.

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

I notice that the workshop manual for my V11 says that the gear height is 16mm, while that aftermarket pump claims to have "15mm impeller for high flow volume".

I cannot see how the aftermarket pump can have "high flow volume" using 1mm narrower gears unless the gear diameter is larger than the stock pump.

Are you sure the aftermarket pump is better than stock?

Shop manual ref Sect M, Oil Pump 7, Pg14 says

Gear height 15.973 - 16.032.

Housing cavity 16.032 - 16.075.

Gear diameter 26.25 - 26.29.

Well, who's to say that the std pump isnt a "high flow" unit and although slightly smaller the aftermarket unit is also "high flow".

The limiting factor for the flow rate of the std pump might be the restrictive inlet or delivery ports and the aftermarket unit addresses this. There is more than the size of the gears involved. 

It doesnt say "HIGHER flow"

Just saying.

Ciao