What did you do to your V11 today?

[audiomick]

10 hours ago, guzzler said:

...with the smell of cut grass plowed fields gum trees and was that a faint hint of spring...?

Magic.

Here's to more days like that.

[FreyZI]

The saga of Bubbles continues ....

In my last contribution (a generous term, that) to this thread, I explained why I needed a new rear disc for Bubbles.  I did eventually find a new EBC disc at a reasonable enough price.  It arrived.  Not wanting to put new parts on the parts bike, I put the new disc (and new pads) on the Tenni, so I could put the very serviceable disc from the Tenni on to Bubbles (with new pads).  Everything went fine with the Tenni and I cleaned up the caliper and bracket while I was at it.

Moving on to Bubbles, I removed the caliper and brake bracket and started removing the six bolts holding the disc to the wheel.  Four came out.  Not wanting to round over the socket bolts, I removed the spindle the rest of the way and removed the wheel to my work bench.  There, I hit the two tough bolts with PB blaster and propane flame to try to loosen them up.  Despite trying to be incredibly careful, the sockets were rounded over (first time I touched them on this bike, so I'd like to blame P.O. ).

Out came the drill.  Drilled a hole into each bolt.  I was able to get one out with a Speed-out, leaving a single bolt.  Speed-out well-situated, a little torque, and ... snap.  Speed-out sheared off inside the hole.  Obviously, my drill bits didn't make a mark on the hardened steel.  Shite.

Called a local machine shop; they recommended a place with an EDM; that place recommended another; which said even if they could get it in the machine, it would take hours to burn out the hardened steel, to the tune of several hundred USD, so just buy a new wheel.  I talked to an engineer friend of mine who said he would have no issue riding a bike that had five of six good bolts holding the rotor.  However, my wife disagreed.

If you've never had to get hardened steel (carefully) out of a threaded hole, it is possible.  You can't drill it out, but you grind it out .  A stop by Tractor Supply and Harbor Freight and I was armed with a 3-pack of chainsaw blade sharpening Dremel bits and a kit of a score or so of diamond encrusted bits of all sorts of shapes.

After going through two of the chainsaw sharpening bits and on the third, I could probe a tiny hole -- the previously drilled out space beneath the hardened steel.  Expanding that tiny hole with a long, tapered diamond bit, it looked like this:

A little more grinding (I felt like a dentist -- kind of fun) and eventually a good sized chunk of hardened steel popped out.  A little more fine diamond grinding and I was able to clean up the hole with the chainsaw sharpening bit.  Then, a more robust extractor and the rotor bolt came out, threads and all.

Existing threads in wheel where mostly intact, so passed a thread tapper through to clean up:

Very light file on the flat at the rim of the hole, squirt of compressed air and voila, problem solved.  Several hours and $16 of abrasive drill bits later.

Cheers,

FreyZI

[p6x]

@FreyZI

I have to command your perseverance!

Nothing is impossible when you set your mind to it.

I always wondered why some fasteners would refuse to come out at times. Overtorqued? repetitive bending forces? fastener material? maybe installations made to never needed to be disassembled?

[FreyZI]

Incidentally, this whole business with Bubbles and the brake began when I had let the battery in the Tenni drain a bit too far.  Having had especially good results switching to lithium batteries in the R1200R and the F800GS, I figured I might as well give an Anti-Gravity ATX-12 Re-Start a try in the Tenni.

I find it a bit of a nuisance fiddling with the terminal connections on the battery in the V11, requiring a horizontal approach with limited space, so I figured that I would take advantage of the ATX-12's terminal allowing the bolt to connect from the top or side.  A little twist of the wires and I was in business and shortly riding away.

1.4 miles from home, engine cut out and I coasted onto a sidewalk.  No restart, nor any light on dash or priming.  I figured maybe the lithium battery was a bad idea after all.  Seat off, blown fuse (the 5 amp).

My wife happened to be passing that way within a minute, so I left the bike in a parking lot, got my car and a few tools, and went to see what could be done.  Apparently the sheathing of a lead had become somewhat brittle.  I hadn't realized that in twisting the wire to attached to the battery terminal from the (convenient) top (as it lay in the V11), I had split the sheath .

I suspect that a short may have had something to do with the blown fuse, but I also haven't ruled out something with the battery.  Ideas?

The in-the-field solution was to insulate the wire with some trash from the car.

After much fussing around with batteries, I finally rode home, quite pissed that I had squandered yet another riding opportunity this summer.  Quite the series of unfortunate events, and all utterly preventable.

The good news is that the Tenni is again road-worthy with a little shrink tube and a good ol' Odyssey PC545 -- not to mention a new rear brake disc and pads; and Bubbles should be back on the road a few hours after my new brake disc bolts arrive.

Cheers,

Frey

 

[audiomick]

24 minutes ago, FreyZI said:

I suspect that a short may have had something to do with the blown fuse.

Definitely. It never hurts to have a closer look, but that cable with the faulty insulation is the no. 1 suspect without any competition.

If you can see that the split in the insulation was lying such that a contact with the frame, or engine parts, or anything that is ultimately connected to the negative pole of the battery, then you don't really need to look any further. Case closed, but have a look at the rest of the wiring just to be sure.

The only thing a battery has to do with a blown fuse is supplying the electrical potential energy (Volts...) that cause a current to flow through a short circuit and overload the fuse. Supplying the volts is what the battery is there for. The actual fault is in the wiring somewhere.

Edited August 14 by audiomick

[docc]

Which fuse is it (counting from the front)?

[FreyZI]

7 minutes ago, docc said:

Which fuse is it (counting from the front)?

First

[audiomick]

According to this "compilation" of manuals, that should be the ECU fuse.

https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/V11_1999-2003_Atelier(Compil-GB-D-NL).pdf

 

Page 392 and/or 457.

[docc]

That seems an odd fuse to fault from that bare insulation. 
Best keep looking.....

[edit: I think Bubbles deserves her own thread....]

[2nd edit: I did find this interesting, dedicated Bubbles thread:

 

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, docc said:

That seems an odd fuse to fault from that bare insulation. 
Best keep looking.....

Yes, there is definitely something in that thought.

[gstallons]

8 hours ago, p6x said:

@FreyZI

I have to command your perseverance!

Nothing is impossible when you set your mind to it.

I always wondered why some fasteners would refuse to come out at times. Overtorqued? repetitive bending forces? fastener material? maybe installations made to never needed to be disassembled?

Two things are bad about these brake rotor fasteners.

  A poor quality Button Head Torx 

 The incorrect Loctite applied to the fasteners at the assy. plant.  These fasteners are attached w/the philosophy "these things are not comin' loose" .  Why ?  ambulance chasers . 

[gstallons]

Every hub I've removed a rotor from has been a chore.  A GOOD heat gun , professional quality sockets  , sometimes a monster c-clamp providing downward pressure and a vow to never do this again , again and new torx fasteners . These should be available at Fastenal . I have lost my paper catalog so I can't post a part # . 

[Lucky Phil]

Because the tool receptacle is shallow and they are thread locked you need lots of heat directly on the fastener. A fine tip on the oxy torch is the way. Anything else is fraught with danger. Then replace them with something sensible. 

[gstallons]

4 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Because the tool receptacle is shallow and they are thread locked you need lots of heat directly on the fastener. A fine tip on the oxy torch is the way. Anything else is fraught with danger. Then replace them with something sensible. 

Sounds like you have been there ? I guess I left out the torch / heat gun step ?

 Caterpillar uses these EXCLUSIVELY and they spin out frequently. Torx is a beautiful looking fastener BUT , it is like aluminum fasteners on BMW automotive engines . Why ?

[p6x]

3 hours ago, gstallons said:

it is like aluminum fasteners on BMW automotive engines . Why ?

Each time we purchased a new motorcycle, in the 70's, mostly Japanese, we replaced all the cruciform fasteners with Allen ones. At the time, a company sold complete kits for every popular motorcycle.

The only issue, they were not stainless steel, but had a Phosphating surface treatment (makes the fastener black); unfortunately, those would rust easily.