What did you do to your V11 today?

[Tinus89]

Leave the middle bolt loose so it can slide, turn the bars to full lock left, move the damper all the way until it bottoms out, move it back by 3-5mm, tighten middle slider nut?

 

@knumbnutz: how come your V11 does not have any clutch rattle?

[Lucky Phil]

8 hours ago, hammershaug said:

Big mistake to remove/remake the air box? I've seen a lot of users here with big K&N filters...?

I think its well recognised that the standard airbox is by far the best scenario not only for the V11 but for every engine made in the last 25 years. Ask yourself how many modern motorcycles you see around with open bellmouths or pod filters these days. even race bikes havent done open bell mouths for 25 years or more.The airbox is part of the intake tuning methodology. The bikes you see with pod filters here sacrifice performance for a particular style and look not because it actually works better. Its one of the dumbest things you can do to your bike, no doubt. Apart from maybe raking the front end and using fork extenders with ape hanger bars.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Ciao

[knumbnutz]

9 hours ago, hammershaug said:

Big mistake to remove/remake the air box? I've seen a lot of users here with big K&N filters...?

Yeah, i read a lot of people say that. I never rode my sport long enough to know what it rode like before I modified it ie: I didnt even ride more than 5mins before I hit diesel and wound up in hospital then got it on the road 12months later in a modified state. So I had no reference point of how well it worked or fuelled or how much power.

After getting it going again, maybe a month or two afterwards, Scud came to visit and I asked how does it compare. It was probably how to tell, because the suspension really needed work as I had a new shock not setup and at least 10+kg lighter, but he said it was probably same, maybe slightly better. Scud seemed to love my duke at the time, the seat was certainly more comfortable than the first iteration of my V11 seat!

The friend who I bought my V11 off, also has a Coppa Italia and he thought it was much better than before and slightly better than the Coppa.

But recently I bought a Cafe Sport with Ti pipes, tuned ecu from Cliff Jefferies and its otherwise in standard form and I gave it a service when I got it.

This confirmed to me riding the two side by side that my bike is more responsive and made more power even with a slight lag from 2Krpm to 3Krpm (running rich).Then I put the Meinholf map in which took away the lag and added lower and midrange power.

So to answer a couple of questions that havent been asked, I made velocity stacks that the filters sit on, the filters don't go directly on the intake side of the throttle bodies and I suspect that this is likely why people say the engines don't like pod filters. If they are bolted straight on, sure, it won't be good.

Also, yes, the pods are huge on mine because the mouth of the pod fits over the velocity stack.  So it has a huge space inside and a huge surface area - would be greater than the original airfilter - to pull air from. No if you were to use pod filters which just fit over the intake side of the throttle bodies, then both the internal pod space and the filter surface area would be greatly different to my setup, not to mention no velocity stack.

If there is any downside to running pods and velocity stacks over the airbox, then I'm yet to see it.

 

[knumbnutz]

5 hours ago, Tinus89 said:

Leave the middle bolt loose so it can slide, turn the bars to full lock left, move the damper all the way until it bottoms out, move it back by 3-5mm, tighten middle slider nut?

 

@knumbnutz: how come your V11 does not have any clutch rattle?

no idea.... its never rattled

[docc]

8 minutes ago, knumbnutz said:

no idea.... its never rattled

That would make me worry . . .

[knumbnutz]

59 minutes ago, docc said:

That would make me worry . . .

I can hear it, but its not exactly ducati dry clutch rattle. 

[footgoose]

8 hours ago, Tinus89 said:

Leave the middle bolt loose so it can slide, turn the bars to full lock left, move the damper all the way until it bottoms out, move it back by 3-5mm, tighten middle slider nut?

 

@knumbnutz: how come your V11 does not have any clutch rattle?

 

2 hours ago, knumbnutz said:

I can hear it, but its not exactly ducati dry clutch rattle. 

I will venture to say Tinus89 is used to the rattle a Rosso Mandello single plate makes when clutch is engaged in neutral and quiet when lever is pulled, and knumnutz has a dual plate which is quiet when engaged in neutral and rattles when lever is pulled.

[Tinus89]

14 hours ago, footgoose said:

 

I will venture to say Tinus89 is used to the rattle a Rosso Mandello single plate makes when clutch is engaged in neutral and quiet when lever is pulled, and knumnutz has a dual plate which is quiet when engaged in neutral and rattles when lever is pulled.

I like your venture... However: my Rosso has been converted to a twin-plate setup. I must admit, not a standard one, but for sure twin plate.

So is it fair to assume a twin-plate V11 clutch should not rattle when engaged (in neutral)? Because mine does rattle when engaged...

[knumbnutz]

No idea on the clutch rattle, mine doesn't really rattle at all, clutch in or out. It was a 2001 LeMans originally. 

I know why a ducati clutch rattles, thats easy to see, but I wouldnt quite expect the same for the guzzi clutch.

 

[Chuck]

Think about how the clutch works. There are two clutch plates with an intermediate plate between them held together by a pressure plate and springs.  All three are located in the flywheel by splines. The inner splines fit the transmission input shaft splines. Engaging the clutch frees the plates. They are free to rattle back and forth because of the uneven firing order of the Guzzi engine. Naturally, as they do this, you can hear them. What you don't want to do is leave the clutch "engaged" for any length of time because of this. Bump it into neutral and release the lever as much as possible. That will reduce wear of the flywheel, clutch splines, and transmission input splines.

[footgoose]

1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Think about how the clutch works. There are two clutch plates with an intermediate plate between them held together by a pressure plate and springs.  All three are located in the flywheel by splines. The inner splines fit the transmission input shaft splines. Engaging the clutch frees the plates. They are free to rattle back and forth because of the uneven firing order of the Guzzi engine. Naturally, as they do this, you can hear them. What you don't want to do is leave the clutch "engaged" for any length of time because of this. Bump it into neutral and release the lever as much as possible. That will reduce wear of the flywheel, clutch splines, and transmission input splines.

thanks for 'splaining that Chuck. Just to clarify my definition of 'engaged' .. I mean the clutch plates are engaged, as when the hand lever is let out. 

Tinus, I missed the mark twice with your bike. I'm just wanting to remind all concerned of the unique differences in the RM. Not sure what to say re: your rattle. My dual plater is fairly quiet at idle. I do hear a bit of clatter, like in knubnutz's video, but the real 'rattle' comes when I pull in the lever. Not Ducati level rattle, just clearly more. I experience the reverse with my single plater.

[Lucky Phil]

11 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Think about how the clutch works. There are two clutch plates with an intermediate plate between them held together by a pressure plate and springs.  All three are located in the flywheel by splines. The inner splines fit the transmission input shaft splines. Engaging the clutch frees the plates. They are free to rattle back and forth because of the uneven firing order of the Guzzi engine. Naturally, as they do this, you can hear them. What you don't want to do is leave the clutch "engaged" for any length of time because of this. Bump it into neutral and release the lever as much as possible. That will reduce wear of the flywheel, clutch splines, and transmission input splines.

Yes Chuck, that's a good description. My clutch rattles pretty much like a Ducati at idle. When I start it up and its rattling if I "flick" the clutch lever (pull it in and snap it back sharply) it quietens it down about 75 percent as the plates re orientate themselves at opposite sides of the splines. Stays relatively quiet until I pull it in again and hold it or ride it and they both align again on the one side of the spline due to friction and load.

I'll let you know what a single plater sounds like when I get the new engine running.

If knumbnutz bike has a silent twin plate clutch then it should be in the Guzzi museum:)

Ciao  

[docc]

29 minutes ago, Chuck said:

Think about how the clutch works. There are two clutch plates with an intermediate plate between them held together by a pressure plate and springs.  All three are located in the flywheel by splines. The inner splines fit the transmission input shaft splines. Engaging the clutch frees the plates. They are free to rattle back and forth because of the uneven firing order of the Guzzi engine. Naturally, as they do this, you can hear them. What you don't want to do is leave the clutch "engaged" for any length of time because of this. Bump it into neutral and release the lever as much as possible. That will reduce wear of the flywheel, clutch splines, and transmission input splines.

That is such  superb explanation.

What has always led me askew is the use of the term "engaged" (versus "disengaged"). Must agree with footgoose on this: "engaging"  the control lever disengages the clutch (and twin plates with intermediate plate rattles and will beat hell out of the gearbox input hub). Lever out in neutral (or underway) and the clutch plates are all "engaged" with no rattle, no hub damage.

Can we agree that the clutch, itself, is "engaged" when the lever is out and all of the clutch components are gathered together by the spring pressure?

As highlighted above, I would suggest, "Pulling in the clutch lever disengages the clutch, itself."

And this, Chuck, "Bump it into neutral and release the lever as much as possible. That will reduce wear of the flywheel, clutch splines, and transmission input splines." is true wisdom. For some of us, hard won . . .

 

[Lucky Phil]

8 minutes ago, footgoose said:

thanks for 'splaining that Chuck. Just to clarify my definition of 'engaged' .. I mean the clutch plates are engaged, as when the hand lever is let out. 

Tinus, I missed the mark twice with your bike. I'm just wanting to remind all concerned of the unique differences in the RM. Not sure what to say re: your rattle. My dual plater is fairly quiet at idle. I do hear a bit of clatter, like in knubnutz's video, but the real 'rattle' comes when I pull in the lever. Not Ducati level rattle, just clearly more. I experience the reverse with my single plater.

Yes me too. I gave Chuck some leway as I'm from the southern hemisphere.

Ciao

[Lucky Phil]

2 minutes ago, docc said:

That is such  superb explanation.

What has always led me askew is the use of the term "engaged" (versus "disengaged"). Must agree with footgoose on this: "engaging"  the control lever disengages the clutch (and twin plates with intermediate plate rattles and will beat hell out of the gearbox input hub). Lever out in neutral (or underway) and the clutch plates are all "engaged" with no rattle, no hub damage.

Can we agree that the clutch, itself, is "engaged" when the lever is out and all of the clutch components are gathered together by the spring pressure?

As highlighted above, I would suggest, "Pulling in the clutch lever disengages the clutch, itself."

And this, "Bump it into neutral and release the lever as much as possible. That will reduce wear of the flywheel, clutch splines, and transmission input splines." is true wisdom. For some of us, hard won . . .

 

I've never seen an automotive clutch that appreciates being disengaged when its not absolutely necessary.

Ciao