Looking at a 2000 V11 Sport

[Antiquar]

Work Log, February 20:

 

• Cleaned underside of gearbox. Removed and cleared gearbox breather bolt.  Unfortunately did not solve my gearbox leak.
• Replaced rear brake pads. Cleaned rear brake calipers. Flushed rear brake fluid. No more sticking rear brake!

 

Here's a question for you all. I took my girlfriend on a short 10 mile ride. The bike would occasionally stumble or buck when accelerating from a stop. I tested riding solo and with her on the back and the problem never occurred riding solo. Perhaps the extra weight (though not much, I assure you ) on the rear is putting undue pressure on the upturned ECU wires? Anyone here encounter a similar problem?

 

Next tasks: Do the TPS and TB sync. Replace/recondition battery (was barely able to crank this morning. It is old.). Replace fuel filter and route fuel overflow/vent hoses. 

[docc]

The early seats often put pressure on the battery (even solo). Check that the terminal stacks are good & tight. Look also that the relays and fuses are seated well. It is possible that a passenger could be jostling the relays if they are not in good contact.

 

Look at the thread on Odyssey PC545 Battery conditioning. With careful method and the right charger, you could likely recover that battery.

 

Inspect the 30 amp regulator fuse for signs of overheating and record the voltage series (1-after no activity for 24 hours, 2- key on for two-three minutes, 3 - cranking, 4 - idle, 5 - at rpm/ maybe 2000+

[footgoose]

"I took my girlfriend on a short 10 mile ride."

 

pure jealosy. the guzzi was tryin to buck her off!

[Antiquar]

footgoose -- Don't think that didn't occur to me. 

 

docc -- Thank you very much for the information. I am extremely grateful to this board. There's no way I would have gotten this V11 without all the knowledge here.

 

I did some cleaning under the seat. The negative stack was a bit grody. It went back much cleaner. I also secured the loose end of the relay row to the frame (don't know if this was a problem, but I didn't like it loose), and constructed a barrier to prevent the tool roll from sliding forward into the ECU.

 

She started right up and I had a nice solo ride. No drama whatsoever. I guess the cowl's staying on.

[JBBenson]

Common mod is to fab up a thin (1/8") strip of aluminum to mount all of the relays to, and then mount the assembly to the frame, isolating it with the existing rubber grommets.

 

The idea is to keep the relays from shaking around too much, since they are fixed only at one end.

 

If this doesn't make sense I can take a photo and post it here.

[Antiquar]

Well, I let the battery get to a bad state. This post is mostly a log since you've answered these issues 1,000 times as I have now read.

 

I go to take a ride this morning. Upon activation of the starter there is only one sad turn of the engine then relay clicks. I get out my new multimeter and check the battery voltage: 11.3V! 

 

I am able to jump the bike from my Tiger. It starts up very nicely and I go for a 30 minute ride on the slab. The bike runs well during this ride. Once I get home I test the battery voltage again: 11.8. I know that is a pretty sorry reading. Purely to satisfy my own curiosity I sample battery voltage while cranking, and it drops to 6V. Ouch. RIP battery.

 

I stop to do a lot of digging on this forum. Visions of regulators and diodes and ground wires swim through my head. I clean, scourge, and reinstall every ground I can get to, save for a suspicious ground on the painted spine frame (behind the right cylinder)--I will get to that when I install a new fuel filter this week. I also inspect and clean wires from the regulator. I realize then that my charging light is not lit when the ignition is switched on, and I confess I don't recall if I have ever seen it lit. I am not too concerned as my high beam light also doesn't work (though the high beams certainly do). I have yet to open the idiot light cover to inspect.

 

I swap in my Tiger's battery. It reads 12.8V with the ignition off. The bike starts very easily with this battery. I test voltage with the bike running, with approximate engine speeds as my tach allows.

 

At ~1000RPM (idle): ~12.4V

At ~2000RPM: ~13V

At ~3000RPM: ~13.4V

 

These values seem acceptable but still a bit low to me. I'm hoping that scourging and cleaning the ground on the spine frame will yield me the 0.5V that is sometimes lost with a bad regulator ground, as I have read about.

 

Most of my rides have been very short coffee runs during my lunch break, and I have not been topping up the battery with a tender. Obviously this was a mistake--I am used to my Tiger, which has a very strong charging system. I have a new battery and tender on order.

 

Still no regrets. This is a fun bike.

[docc]

Keep sorting - every improvement adds up! And, as you say,"Still no regrets. This is a fun bike."

 

Your charging numbers are way too low - so, regulator, regulator case ground, primary gearbox ground, stator wires, 30 amp regulator fuse . . .

 

It will be absolutely worth the effort! Lovely bikes!

[Antiquar]

Thanks Docc.

 

Here's a quick question. What gauge wire is recommended for the regulator groundstrap? I was thinking 14 gauge since I have some handy.

[docc]

Kiwi_Roy is the resident expert on these things, but he is off in, well, Kiwi_Land . . .

 

14 gauge will be fine. Because it is going engine to frame, I used flat braided ground strap material under heat shrink tubing.

[Stick]

My  current 2002 Lemans had a "soft" charging issue.  If I rode it  "all day", she would not restart unless I used booster cables.  Once running, the system provided "enough" to keep her running.   Similar to your numbers, it seemed that the charging voltage was less than impressive.  

 

Only difference is that I tend to place my bikes on charger/maintainers, when they're garaged.  

 

So I finally decided to dig into the alternator.  Seemed like the AC voltage out of the stator was healthy.  Easily see up to 60 or so VAC when revved.  Even under a load that I made for it (element from an old hair dryer).  Clamp-on ammeter showed OK current at those 60 plus VAC.  So I decided to replace the RR.

 

Being a cheap bastid like many of us here, I decided to toss in a "spare" RR that I use to carry on my old ST2 Ducati.  Only this was a 3 phase AC unit that I bought second hand  (and never tested!).  Well, time to test.  I spliced it in, tied the 3rd yellow wire back, and "taped off".  I also had previously ran 2 pair of speaker wire, #12 AWG from the tail section up to the headlight area "for future use".  One of these runs is now the charging leads directly to the battery - no fuse, either.

 

Happy to say that she now charges happily at 14.4 VDC above 2000rpm.  Same battery, too.  Even though the AGM "went soft" for those longer rides, it did not destroy the battery (as I said, I always topped it up when in the garage).  

 

Oh, also note that I did not tie the RR to chassis ground.  The pair of black wires that complement the pair of reds, are plenty of earthing, right at the battery.   

 

The RR came off ebay for about $40.  And this was many years back when I was waiting for the 1998 ST2 system to fail.  (Of course, it never did in the 53,000 miles I put on her before selling it !!!)

 

Some stats:  The ST2 had a single-phase, 420W stator.  The newer DUCs all had a 520W 3phase stator/RR.   So I felt that using 4 out of the 6 active devices inside of the 520W RR "might" work on the LeMans.  Seems to hold true.  I even run a 90W jacket on it, along with 30W of gloves.  And she hasn't popped yet.    I do tend to turn my jacket off about one mile before getting to the parking lot, to allow it to top-up the battery a bit.  

 

Oh, and there's no extra leads for the alternator light.  I run an Escort 8500 that has a built-in voltmeter.  That's been great across all my bikes.  It's on my tank bag.  And the tank bag roams from bike to bike.  

 

Stick

 

PS: one very handy tool I bought was an AC/DC clamp-on ammeter from Sears.  Craftsman brand.  $60.  I could not find a better priced unit than that one.  It works great.  0 - 40 and 0 to 400A ranges on AC or DC.  Does a bunch of other stuff that I don't care about (temprature via a t/c bead; frequency, Volts, Ohms, and more).

[Antiquar]

Very interesting, Stick. Thanks for posting.

 

I will keep that in mind if I can't get the existing setup working. 

[docc]

 

PS: one very handy tool I bought was an AC/DC clamp-on ammeter from Sears.  Craftsman brand.  $60.  I could not find a better priced unit than that one.  It works great.  0 - 40 and 0 to 400A ranges on AC or DC.

So, what kind of amperage do you see from the charging circuit on the V11?

[Stick]

 

 

PS: one very handy tool I bought was an AC/DC clamp-on ammeter from Sears.  Craftsman brand.  $60.  I could not find a better priced unit than that one.  It works great.  0 - 40 and 0 to 400A ranges on AC or DC.

So, what kind of amperage do you see from the charging circuit on the V11?

 

I think it was close to 25A, as it initially tries to replenish the battery after cranking.  Tapers off pretty fast, as the battery charges.  

 

The clamp-on ammeter was key to seeing 200A going into my defective starter.  One of the field magnets had fallen (become unglued), and jammed the armature.    I love the meter.

[Antiquar]

I installed my new battery and fastened an extra regulator ground to the engine. I replaced all fuses and cleaned up every connection on the charging circuit. I inspected the alternator and the wires look good.

 

Charging performance is a bit improved, but still low. Think 12.55V at idle instead of 12.4. At this point I'm considering throwing a new RR unit at the bike. They are not too expensive at EME.

 

Anyone install this unit? 

http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edlguz-voltrect.htm

[czakky]

I have an Electrosport, can't say I'd recommend it. Although mine (the plug n play version) is no longer made. Others have had better luck with the "direct to battery" version.

Might give the one you posted a shot....