Tell me about my '01 V11 Sport

[Kiwi_Roy]

Lean perhaps

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

[gstallons]

there is no normal start time for these bikes . As a matter of fact there is no normal anything for these bikes. If you want to post a video of a first start , we might tell you it is o.k. or not .

[docc]

OK, I have done the whole tune-up again, plus I replaced the crank/cam sensor (slightly melted) and she is running a whole lot better, also put another turn in the pre-load, might be good with full bags, but a bit much for commuting.  But my issue now is she is hard to get started cold. She acts like she wants to start after a few revolutions, but any use of the high idle makes her less likely to start.  I end up having to crack the throttle manually to get her to fire and run, even then I might have to do it a couple of times to get her to stay running.  Once running she is fine.  Any thoughts one this?

I always gently roll the throttle on slightly for a cold start. Typically starts in four "compression cycles" [crank-crank-crank-crank-vrooom] and settles in on the high idle at 12-1500 or so.

 

I've heard Meinolf's Tune will start without throttle application.

 

What does your tach (and guzzidiag) say your idle speed is at operating temperature?

[HRC_V4]

I am probably 15-20 revolutions to get it started, 3 to 4 attempts at 5 each.  If I use the fast idle, It sounds like I loose spark, no attempt to start at all.

 

Idle is set by tach about 1,100 rpms, Guzzidiag says my tach reads low, so maybe about 1,200 rpm, I can double check that.

 

I will keep trying to crack the throttle a little to get it started, after it starts I can use the fast idle to pick rpms up until she is a little warmer.

 

When warm, she starts on 2nd or 3rd revolution.

[Tom M]

Try flicking the kill switch off & on a couple times to cycle the fuel pump before you try your next cold start.  This might help if your fuel system is losing pressure while the bike is sitting.

[Scud]

The fast idle should be the same as opening the throttle a little. It is totally mechanical, not electrical.

[HRC_V4]

Scud,  Agreed, should be the same.  I have used a little input from fast idle and a lot of input from fast idle, either way I get no attempt to start.  With no throttle input, she chokes and coughs a little, a sight crack of the throttle and she picks up just enough to start.

 

Tom, not with the engine kill switch, but with the key I have tried that too, turn it on, listen and wait, turn it off then back on, listen and wait.  Did not seem to make a difference.

 

Two thoughts I have had, maybe play with the air bypass screws, a 1/4 in then a 1/4 out to see if that makes a difference, I have them at the 1 turn out right now. Roy, not sure if this would be the slight lean fix if I went in a 1/4 turn.

 

Other thought I have is I have a slow leak on one of the injectors, if she sits long enough she dumps fuel that is fouling a plug on start, enough attempts to start, or starting on 1 cylinder and she cleans it out.  I guess I could do a few attempts and pull a plug and see if it is wet.

[docc]

This came after the last "re-tune?"

 

I would think some parameter got changed for the un-better.

 

What are you using for the throttle body balance?

[Chuck]

 

 

Other thought I have is I have a slow leak on one of the injectors, if she sits long enough she dumps fuel that is fouling a plug on start, enough attempts to start, or starting on 1 cylinder and she cleans it out.  I guess I could do a few attempts and pull a plug and see if it is wet.

 

I wouldn't think so, really. I'm not ruling it out, of course. 

 

This happened to me for the first time yesterday. The Mighty Scura has *always* started immediately when cracking the throttle and punching the button. My old Centauro was exactly the same. If it didn't get *any* throttle, you could crank it until the cows came home, and it wouldn't fire a lick.

Yesterday, I geared up, cracked the throttle, punched the button, and it wouldn't fire. Tried all throttle positions from closed to wide open. Occasionally just a putt or two. Thought "WTF??" Acts like it's not getting fuel. Suddenly, it started, and ran normally. (!!) Hmmmm.. maybe an injection relay? I would think so, but the issue is clouded by my recent tune up, too. Fortunately, the Monza was needing exercised anyway    so took it instead. 

It's *not* Rocket Science.. I..and you.. will figure it out. 

[Cyborg]

I'm new to MG, so not sure, but what is your battery voltage when cranking? At what point does that computer start to protest? 

[HRC_V4]

I keep it on a tender, so voltage is good, plus, just put a new regulator in it a month or two ago.

 

It actually started doing this after the first tune up (my mistake was not disconnecting the fast idle the first time, and I did not have the cables for the Guzzidiag), although on the first morning in the high 40's (f) it fired first time, right up.  I lived with it while on the Arkansas trip, but it would start after about 6-8 revolutions, now with the most recent tune up and the CO Trim adjustment, it has gotten worse.  Warm starts are great, but cold, or even after 3 or 4 hours, it is tough.

 

I have dial gauge vacuum meters I have used to balance them.

 

Chuck, I look at this as half the fun, I love working on them.  Although I did take the RC30 to Shady Valley over the weekend, 100 miles of great Autumn weather and great roads on a motorcycle I was not designed to ride...

[MartyNZ]

Other thought I have is I have a slow leak on one of the injectors, if she sits long enough she dumps fuel that is fouling a plug on start, enough attempts to start, or starting on 1 cylinder and she cleans it out. I guess I could do a few attempts and pull a plug and see if it is wet.

Maybe cleaning the injectors will help?

While I had the tank off my bike to change the fuel filter, old cracked fuel hoses, & put a heat insulating sleeve over the pump, I found that the fuel tap inlet screen was mostly covered with what looked like brown fluff matted into felt. Maybe the fuel filter was coming apart, or it got some dirty fuel.

I saw more of this in the pump intake screen, and a little in the pressure regulator screen. Any debris in the pressure regulator means debris in the injectors too.

I took the injectors out and back-flushed them. You need lots of patience to get the injectors out, and that is a good time to clean the throttle bodies.

I adapted the nozzle of a spray can of throttle body cleaner to the outlet nose of the injector, applied pressure from the can, and momentarily pulsed 12v to the injector (without sparks setting fire to everything).

Cleaning fluid bubbles out the intake and hopefully carries away the stuff that makes your injector dribble.

Then I reversed the rig to blow cleaner in the normal intake end. I got spray patterns about 1 metre long, 200mm wide. If I was thinking, I would have tested the spray pattern before I back flushed the injectors, but no.

While the tank was off, I sloshed detergent and hot water through it to get any more debris out.

Ran better after that.

[docc]

I've been thinking back through this and can't imagine the air screws will make much difference. Seems more likely that if the TPS were off baseline from not being entirely closed when set to (150)-157mV, then the map would not be correctly indexed. Did you reset the TPS baseline again in the second tune-up?

 

Or a sensor that got unplugged might be wreaking some havoc.  Does guzzidiag confirm input from all the sensors?

[gstallons]

 

Other thought I have is I have a slow leak on one of the injectors, if she sits long enough she dumps fuel that is fouling a plug on start, enough attempts to start, or starting on 1 cylinder and she cleans it out. I guess I could do a few attempts and pull a plug and see if it is wet.

Maybe cleaning the injectors will help?

While I had the tank off my bike to change the fuel filter, old cracked fuel hoses, & put a heat insulating sleeve over the pump, I found that the fuel tap inlet screen was mostly covered with what looked like brown fluff matted into felt. Maybe the fuel filter was coming apart, or it got some dirty fuel.

I saw more of this in the pump intake screen, and a little in the pressure regulator screen. Any debris in the pressure regulator means debris in the injectors too.

I took the injectors out and back-flushed them. You need lots of patience to get the injectors out, and that is a good time to clean the throttle bodies.

I adapted the nozzle of a spray can of throttle body cleaner to the outlet nose of the injector, applied pressure from the can, and momentarily pulsed 12v to the injector (without sparks setting fire to everything).

Cleaning fluid bubbles out the intake and hopefully carries away the stuff that makes your injector dribble.

Then I reversed the rig to blow cleaner in the normal intake end. I got spray patterns about 1 metre long, 200mm wide. If I was thinking, I would have tested the spray pattern before I back flushed the injectors, but no.

While the tank was off, I sloshed detergent and hot water through it to get any more debris out.

Ran better after that.

Injector Cleaning.jpg

 

If yours is a 2003 w/ external pump , the fuel shutoff and screen is in front of the fuel filter . That screen traps bad stuff going through the fuel shut-off . You should frequently exercise the fuel shut-off to keep it from getting stuck in place .

 Ass far as your injector cleaning goes , you can apply 12v to them for 20 seconds or less w/o fear of hurting them . They have a coil , pintle & spring inside . When you reinstall the injectors you can use any oil or grease to make it easier. 

 Geed luck

[HRC_V4]

On the second TPS adjustment, I discounted the throttle rod, backed the stop out and loosened the fast idle screw.  I set it to 153, I opened and closed it several times, some slowly, other times I let it snap back, each time it stayed in spec although it moved the reading a little each time.

 

Mine is a 2001, someone already replaced the fuel cut off with a manual one.

 

I will plug Guzzidiag back in and make sure everything is getting picked up.