Odyssey battery and ducati energia regulator

[Bruce Reader]

Headlight relay switched with key for the Scura.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

[Bruce Reader]

Still on the original battery after 14 years.  Have had some issues though !

[Kiwi_Roy]

Bruce, I think that means your regulator as well as seeing the Voltage drop thru the headlight relay also sees Voltage drop thru the ignition switch, a recipe for disaster (overcharging) IMHO. You can check by measuring the Voltage between battery + and the red/black wire coming from loom (male/female connector)

If you notice that the charging is inconsistent it probably means the switch is building up resistance. I would consider getting a more direct Voltage reference,

[Kiwi_Roy]

The Odyssey seems to be just a better made AGM battery, I'm sure the Ducati Energia (OEM regulator) is fine with it.

[moscowphil]

Headlight relay switched with key for the Scura.

 

Cheers

 

Bruce

Are you sure about that Bruce? I always thought the Scura's wiring was the same as a standard V11 of the same year - certainly when I bought my Scura (new) the handbook the factory supplied (complete with wiring diagram) didn't even mention the existence of the Scura! My understanding of the way things work (thanks to reading all the stuff Kiwi Roy  has published on the subject)  - is that the route to the Voltage Regulator voltage sensing input is something like this: 

(1) battery +ve to Fuse 5

(2) F5 to starter relay power in (terminal 30)

(3) starter relay power out (terminal 87a) to headlight relay power in (terminal 30)

(4) headlight relay power out (terminal 87) to voltage regulator (and to light switches).

 

This is a really crap arrangement, as any burning of the points or a bad connection  in either the starter relay or the headlight relay will introduce resistance into the circuit, resulting in the VR sensing too low a voltage, causing it to over-charge to compensate. This is I think what was happening with my bike. (I replaced both relays, so I can't say which one was the bad one).

 

As far as I know the ignition switch (and the run switch, sidestand switch etc) only affect things in that they need to be turned on to provide power to the "activating coil" bit  of the headlight relay i.e. terminal 85 - so with the ignition off the switch in the relay will be open and there will be no voltage for the VR to sense. But the main power into to the relay  doesn't flow through the ignition switch - it comes from the starter relay, as I've described above.

 

Apologies Roy if I've completely misunderstood your valiant attempts to teach us all how to be electricians. 

 

But what is it about Italians and electricity? A couple of years ago I had to re-wire my expensive Smeg oven when the main switch melted, which turned out to be due to a simple lack of understanding on the part of the designers that if you try to put 15 amps through a cheap spade connector badly crimped on to a bit of 1mm wire it's going to get very hot. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

It's interesting to study the page out of the workshop manual that MartyNZ posted in the Damaged Alternator thread it shows how the regulator should be wired to the ignition switch not downstream of a flakey headlight relay that might or might not drop from 0.5 to 1 Volt depending on the phase of the moon.

 

To make the Voltage reference more reliable I recommend feeding just the black wire from a dedicated relay or the ECU relay No 4 that is lightly loaded. I say just the black wire because the charge light is connected in with the other idiot lights which BTW also rely on the headlight relay to work, no headlight = no idiot lights =  possible disaster

I wouldn't load up the ECU relay with any un-necessary junk.

Others have added headlight relays powered from the battery, this frees up the existing headlight relay to make it more reliable but if it is fed thru the switch it defeats the purpose.

 

Also on the spine framed Guzzis the regulator is not well grounded so provide a strap from the regulator case to an engine bolt, I suggest using a 1/2" strip of sheet Aluminium for this with grease to prevent corrosion

[Lucky Phil]

Phil - is the Ducati Energia the regulator that your wrote about and recommended a while back?

My bike a little while back was eating Odyssey batteries which I initially put down to a faulty std reg overcharging. After research here and advice from Roy I traced it to the headlight wiring voltage drop issue and wired the headlights direct to the battery via relays and the Reg output voltage went back to the 14.2 volt range.

I had already purchased an Electrosport reg ( plug and play version) which I never bothered using as I had solved the issue so cant comment on its performance. Doesn't hurt to carry a spare as it will fit the ST2 as well I think from memory.

Ciao   

[twhitaker]

I have Odysseys on both my LeMans and the California. Had to replace the VR on the LM last weekend and the one on my Cali yesterday.

[moscowphil]

I have Odysseys on both my LeMans and the California. Had to replace the VR on the LM last weekend and the one on my Cali yesterday.

It doesn't necessarily mean the odysseys, caused the failures I know, but the fact that  Ducati Energia won't guarantee the VR if it is used with an Odyssey does concern me. On the basis of what I've gleaned so far I'm going to replace my battery with something else (probably Yuasa, as this is what Guzzi now specify for the V11) asap - VRs cost more than batteries.

[GuzziMoto]

Good luck with the Yuasa. I have not had good luck with them in a while. Check to see where it is made, if possible do that before you buy it.

[Lucky Phil]

 

I have Odysseys on both my LeMans and the California. Had to replace the VR on the LM last weekend and the one on my Cali yesterday.

It doesn't necessarily mean the odysseys, caused the failures I know, but the fact that  Ducati Energia won't guarantee the VR if it is used with an Odyssey does concern me. On the basis of what I've gleaned so far I'm going to replace my battery with something else (probably Yuasa, as this is what Guzzi now specify for the V11) asap - VRs cost more than batteries.

 

Here in Australia the battery costs more than the regulator!

Ciao

[AZRider]

I have had a Ducati regulator/rectifier from EME on my CaliforniaEV for the last six years/60K miles. It was identical to the OEM part, right down to the Ducati logo and info on the stickers. I have had Odyssey batteries in that bike since I bought it in 2001. No problems that I can trace to the battery, since I got about 90K miles out of the Ducati/Odyssey combo before the original reg/rec failed.

[Camn]

The education from Kiwi_Roy about the functioning principle/wiring of the Ducati Energia Regulator has alarmed me... I have had also the Odyssey for some years now. The 30A Fuse likes to melt and the coils of the relays tend to be quite warm (when feeling with finger on top of them). It says on my Odyssey PC545: “Cyclic charge voltage 14,4-14,8V” (weight 5.7 kg/12.6 lbs). The Guzzi Workshop Manual, where the Ducati Energia Regulator is covered says: "The regulator has been calibrated in order to maintain the battery voltage at a value between 14÷14.6 Volts." So, shouldn't it match... (if the reference voltage is right for the Ducati Energia)

Now I installed a LiFePo battery (Unibat XRacer Lithium 12, 24Ah, 380 CCA, 1,7 kg/3,7lbs). It must be charged between 14-15V.

Although they write from the Ducati Energia Regulator: „NOT COMPATIBLE WITH LITHIUM IRON BATTERIES AS SUPPLIED BY SHORAI. USE OF DRY CELL DESIGN AND LITHIUM IRON BATTERY NOT RECOMMENDED, OR SUPPORTED FOR WARRANTY.” http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edl450-voltrect.htm. ...

I measured with the LiFePo battery:

Motor off: 13,6V.
1000 rpm no lights 13,46V / lights on 13,26V
2000 rpm no lights 13,93V / lights on 14,27V.
3300 rpm no lights 14,00V / lights on 14,33V (the alternator creates between 3000-4000 rpm ca. 24 DC Ampers).

 

So.. 14,33V is between 14-15V - I should be OK ... at least as long as the smoke stays inside the battery...