Not charging

[Bjorn]

Hello hello,

 

Just came back from a long weekend riding on some beautiful German roads. Only the Guzzi had to be picked up with a trailer

 

Long story short, during the last miles the tacho went off and after stopping the bike wouldn't start. We checked the basis stuff (fuses, relays, clutch bullet connectors etc.) and where able to jump start the bike. But after 10 minutes riding the misfiring started. We where able to limp to a parking lot but that was the end of it. We had to call the ADAC (AAA).

 

According to our diagnoses, top suspects were the battery, reg/rec and alternator.

 

The ADAC mechanic arrived and we could see that with ignition off the voltage at the battery was 11,8V. He used jump leads to start the bike and measure the voltage with some revs....only around 8-9V

 

The bike is now at my brothers home (his bike now). Is there any way we can verify if the reg/rec or the alternator is broken?

[Stick]

We will need year and model of your Guzzi.  Oh, Ballabio?   200x ?

There are on-line sites that have trouble shooting instructions for our type of alternators.  

Basically, the stator coil's output is AC.  This runs to the Regulator Rectifier (RR), and then this feeds back to the battery.  

 

Before just buying an RR, it's best to verify that the AC is healthy.  Since it's a permanent magnet rotor, the stator voltage starts around maybe 20VAC at idle, and should climb proportionally with RPM.  If you rev to about 4000 or so, it's not uncommon to see 60 to 80 VAC on these 2 wires.

 

If this seems healthy, and all the fuses are good, the next thing is the RR.  I would recommend aftermarket, and nor "guzzi" part for this.  On my V11 LeMans, I had only 12.4VDC trying to charge the battery.  After swapping in a newer Ducati RR (about $40 USD used), I now have 14.4 VDC.  Battery is much happier with this.

 

Note that I used a "3-phase" RR, but the older V11's are single-phase.  I just taped back one of the 3 yellow wires on the RR.

[czakky]

Check the wires going to the stator, they are very weak.

Otherwise you can have your battery load tested (most US parts stores will do it) or just do a fully charged, key on and bike running test with your voltmeter hooked up to the battery.

Then try testing the regulator. The voltage readings should tell you/us what's happening a little better.

[Stick]

Here's one website with trouble shooting flow chart:

 

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

[Tom M]

That sucks Bjorn.  Checking the charging system is in section P of the workshop manual.  Check the alternator by connecting your volt meter to the two yellow wires running to the alternator and set it to the AC scale.  It should be putting out 15 volts at  1000 rpm, 40v at 3000, and 80v at 6000 rpm.  If the alt is OK but the regulator isn't charging it probably needs to be replaced.  Unfortunately the Ducati reg's aren't very reliable. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Make sure you get 12 Volts too the regulator Voltage reference (the black wire) It comes from the red/black wire downstream of the headlight relay.

The charging won't work without it.

The wire also feeds the tach and idiot lights and the headlight

[Bjorn]

Thanks guys this already gives me some direction where and how to figure this out!

[vuzzi]

Also check if the fuse is thight in the holder. Mine (the holder) got weak and floppy. I solders a heavy fuse holder in.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Many good points posted here, there's lots of stuff to go wrong with charging.

 

If ever the tacho stops working make sure the headlight's On or you may have lost charging.

The charge light also relies on the headlight along with several of the other idiot lights and the horn.

 

Might I suggest an after market, direct connected regulator that doesn't need a separate Voltage reference

They have their issues also like quiescent current draw but not as serious IMHO

 

I think the Ducati Regulator is pretty good even though it's old technology, it's let down badly by the Guzzi wiring.

[Bjorn]

This sunday will start working on the bike.

 

This bike does not have the charging indicator light.

 

More posts or question will problably follow

[Bjorn]

Today we checked:

RR shortage acc. The manual. From the housing no shortage to any of the wires.

Alternator winding isolation. From each of the yellow wires to a earth. No continuity.
Alternator winding continuity. Measured around 0.4 ohm. Manual says 0,2-0,3 ohm. However I don't have a calibrated meter so I call that OK.

Alternator voltage output: between the two yellow wires....nothing Nada...

How we checked output

 

Who designed this shitty connection anyways ?? Doesn't look that crisp. And why would you go from alternator to bullet to normal connectors. seems like these should never have been there in the first place.

 

Anyway based on the none output of the alternator.....can i conclude that its dead? seems weird that the other alternator checks look ok...

[Bjorn]

just did some more checking of the wiring/connectors. We measured the continuity between the Green/red wire from the RR to the fuse holder. this was OK (0.3 Ohm). However when i turn on the ignition there is no current to be found at the Green/red wire. But there is at the black ones???

 

Im confused with all the pixies  

[Kiwi_Roy]

The alternator output on the yellow wires is AC not DC, check your meter is working on the AC range.

The two bullet connectors you are holding in your hand do look bad you have a loose connection there but they are connected to the regulator, the alternator wires are female bullet connectors.

 

The connector hanging out the side you are plugged into is not part of the original wiring.

 

I suggest you chop off the bullet connectors and connect the alternator to regulator with crimp connectors.

Please take a picture of the regulator so we can see what you have.

 

The original Ducati Energia regulator had a male/female connector (black and white wire), The black wire has to get 12 Volts from the bike to turn it On

You since pointed out the regulator is not this design.

 

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif

[Bjorn]

the saga continues haha. Here are some pics of the setup this bike has. To me this look original (at least acc to the post 2004 manual). 

 

Also the link of this wiring diagram:

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif

 

 

 

 

The manual was very unclear whether to check the AC output with the alternator (2x yellow) plugged in or not. The result i posted before was with the connector of the 2 yellow wires UNPLUGGED.

Just now we repeated the test with everything plugged in and i probed the 2 yellow wire connector with the VOM:

 

Getting around 16 Vac at idle. The AC output does not go up with the revs....

[Kiwi_Roy]

Ok, you have an after market regulator.

We normally measure the voltage unplugged and it goes up with revs to 60+