Anybody got pics of the evap plumbing?

[jchayes]

Hello everyone,

 

I recently became the proud 3rd owner of a bouncing baby '02 LeMans. Woo-hoo! Okay, okay, it's a bratty 14-year-old...

 

I am tearing the bike down, starting a "restomod," and am encountering a bunch of problems created by previous owners. Some things I knew about when I saved it but I've found a bunch of stuff under the tank, or rather there's a bunch of stuff that I should have found under the tank and didn't. Like the entire evaporative emissions system. It's not there. Just one hose from one of the vents that runs down the back of the transmission. 

 

When I open the door to my shop I like the pungent perfume of raw gas as much as the next guy but, let's face it, that's wasted gas.

 

My service manuals detail all the parts and plumbing needed to restore that system but they have no info about where those parts actually go on the bike. Anyone have any pics that show what the stuff under the tank should look like on a properly maintained bike?

 

Oh, by the way, external fuel pump...

 

Thanks

[Scud]

I often use Harper's website for diagrams. Here is the link directly to the system in question:

 

http://www.harpermoto.com/parts-by-motorcycle/2000-up-moto-guzzi-motorcycles/v-11-le-mans-1100-2002/fuel-vapour-recover-system-en-v11-lemans-1100-2002.html

 

Note that the diagram doesn't show exactly how it mounts on the bike - the canister (part #12) goes in a bracket (part #18) - which in turn mounts inside the exhaust hanger.  After that you just route hoses to the tank and the throttle bodies.

 

FWIW - I removed the whole system from both my bikes and I don't smell gas in my garage.

[jchayes]

Yeah...

 

No, that looks nothing like the diagram in my MG service manuals. The one in my service manual is year and model specific and where Harper's generic diagram shows one box-like canister mine shows 2 cylinders that seem to mount somewhere under the gas tank with a bunch of spaghetti thrown in for good measure. Still no idea what that second nipple is for.

[Scud]

The Harper site is year and model specific too - that diagram is from a 2002 LeMans and is the same as on my 02 and 03 bikes. On the early, red sauce frame models the sausages canisters mount under the seat and there is spaghetti hose everywhere. 

 

One nipple under the tank is a drain for rain water or spilled fuel. The other is a vent so air can replace the spent fuel.

[jchayes]

Still ain't got not pictures of the factory installed sausages, sauce or no sauce...

[power685]

The bike is better off with out all that epa junk.

[docc]

One nipple (left) is the overflow in the event the tank is overfilled fueling or water gets around the filler neck under the cap. It drains out a direct hose to the left, behind the starter motor and beside the gearbox to drain to the tarmac behind the engine (usually "zip-tied" to the braided oil return line to the back of the sump.

 

On US spec V11, the other nipple (right) has a rubber seal from the cap to the tank (is it there?) and plumbs below the tank through a one-way valve (that can become less than vertical and fail, yielding "tank-suck" vent failure) to a pair of charcoal canisters that were placed in the tool tray under the seat which were then plumbed, separately, to vacuum taps from both intakes (are those plugged, capped, tubed together, or left open?), and two separate "drains" or "vents" to a cadmium plated bracket at the back of the gearbox bottom.

 

Other than the vacuum lines, all of my hoses were US made 1/2" double walled fuel line . Twenty feet of it! (I kid you not. I measured it. )  The whole mess weighs five pounds. (No, seriously, I weighed it. )

 

I am seriously not putting it back on. Unless maybe Walter Peck shows up from the e-pee-a

[Gio]

Hey jc ... I have all that two sausage stuff ... from the same external fuel pump set-up. Pulled it all off my 2000 when I took delivery and has been in a box since then. As others have said ... all very un-needed, but you can have it for cost of shipping if you really want to re-install ..? I suspect the smell of gas you report may be coming from another source ... eg loose fuel line connection, petcock etc

 

Be carefull what you wish for!

 

Gio

[docc]

I suspect the smell of gas you report may be coming from another source ... eg loose fuel line connection, petcock etc

 

 

 

Gio

+1

[jchayes]

Fuel + heat + agitation = accelerated evaporation.

 

Never ceases to amaze me the number of people who rip out "all that EPA junk" never realizing that without it you lose a pint or so of fuel for every hundred miles you ride on a hot day. Fuel that you could/should be burning. You realize that there's a heater in your gas tank, right? Your fuel pump is cooled by the fuel it constantly circulates. Got a fuel pump inside the tank? Make sure you don't use that last gallon - you need it to make sure that your fuel pump has enough coolant.

 

Same thing happened when people ripped out PVC systems and then couldn't figure out why their engines didn't go as far between valve jobs as engines with the PVC system intact. Oil vapor in the intake = valve lubrication.

 

As for what's on the bike, uh, at least one of the previous owners has no business working on motorcycles. Seriously. Right now I'm tearing the bike down and rebuilding a section at a time, fixing the problems, cleaning, restoring, etc., and some of the stuff I'm finding is just flat stoopid. Final drive held in by bolts that were just finger tight. Fuel tank vent nipple with nothing on it - shake the bike with a full tank and fuel would drip on the hot engine. Or did until I found it. A bunch of plumbing was pulled out but almost nothing was plugged. Lots of naked nipples. I don't wanna talk about the wiring except to say that there's an "M-unit" in the near future...

 

Thanks for your offer, Gio, but I think I'll rig up my own. A V7 canister or two, a proper anti-tip valve and a little hard line. Plenty of room now that Luigi's "La Stranglotta" airbox is gone...

[Scud]

JC - your 2002 bike does not use the "sausages" (I like calling them that) under the seat. It would have come new in the US with the canister as in the illustration in the Harper's link I posted above. I happen to have three of them - two I'm keeping with the bikes they belong to, but one was removed from a 2002 LeMans that I got for parts (it was wrecked). I dug it out and took a picture for you. It is still connected to the exhaust hanger, exactly the way I removed it from the bike. The large hose goes to the tank vent. A small hose goes from the open nipple to a T then to both throttle bodies. I sent you a PM in case you are interested in this.

 

 

Personally, I felt comfortable removing the unit because I believe they don't do much (if anything). Saving a pint of fuel in 100 miles would make me think about reinstalling it. Can you let me know where you got that information?

 

By the way - 2002 and earlier models have an external fuel pump. It's on the frame, under the tank. They switched to internal fuel pumps in 2003.

 

I felt similarly about my 2003 LeMans - it needed a lot of help and I shook my head in amazement several times. I documented my (mis)adventures with it in this thread:  http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18967&hl=

It's been frustrating at times - but they are wonderful bikes once sorted out. Keep the faith!

[Gio]

JC - we are all entitled to our opinions, and you obviously have yours with regard to the value of the evap system in question - nothing wrong with that sir.

 

But just to clarify, there is no heater in the tank in my case as the fuel pump is external. A far bigger issue with the fuel system in the early days was with "vapour lock" and we (myself and others) did quite a bit of work figuring out solutions for that ... in my case relocating the fuel pump from it's original location between the cylinders (not a good place!) and mounted it on the top of the spine (where the fuel filter was) and re-located the fuel filter. This and some strategic heat shielding of the fuel lines fixed those problems. A search should find some of those early threads if interested.

 

Wishing you luck with the re-build ... as Scud says - these are awesome bikes once fettled and most satisfying to achieve that yourself.

 

Cheers!

[footgoose]

Last 2 posters: I've been watching out for a K75s locally. Interest is piqued. Reviews are positive. Owners are attached similar to Guzzi owners. Guzzi owners own 'em. Smaller and lighter brick. (former K12RS owner) Seemingly in a low spot value wise. Whats not to love? 

[Scud]

Last 2 posters: I've been watching out for a K75s locally. Interest is piqued. Reviews are positive. Owners are attached similar to Guzzi owners. Guzzi owners own 'em. Smaller and lighter brick. (former K12RS owner) Seemingly in a low spot value wise. Whats not to love? 

 

Try the V11LeMans.com brick thread:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19273&hl=

[footgoose]

 

Last 2 posters: I've been watching out for a K75s locally. Interest is piqued. Reviews are positive. Owners are attached similar to Guzzi owners. Guzzi owners own 'em. Smaller and lighter brick. (former K12RS owner) Seemingly in a low spot value wise. Whats not to love? 

 

Try the V11LeMans.com brick thread:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19273&hl=

 

perfect. whodathunk to search for a brick thread here?