RAM Clutch 2016 Edition

[Scud]

Dual plate refers to the standard clutch on most V11s - and most Guzzis in general. The direct replacement RAM for 6-speed transmission is no longer available. However, the RAM for 5-speed is supposedly compatible.

[bbolesaz]

Tnanks for the info.  Guess I should start checking ebay for a V11 dual plate clutch !

[Scud]

Just looked back at the date of the first post - I got the clutch 6 months ago. But today I finally rode my Scura with the new RAM clutch installed. I was a little anxious at first, because when I reassembled it, the clutch effort at the lever was so slight that I thought I had done something wrong. 

 

Here are observations from a very short shakedown ride:

• The clutch effort is positively lady-like. It's almost laughably easy to pull.
• It's quieter than the original single-plate. I sort of liked the rattle of the old clutch, but I can dig quiet too.
• Engagement is quick and precise.
• Shifting is perfect.

I have to wait at least a few days for a proper ride.

[footgoose]

Just looked back at the date of the first post - I got the clutch 6 months ago. But today I finally rode my Scura with the new RAM clutch installed. I was a little anxious at first, because when I reassembled it, the clutch effort at the lever was so slight that I thought I had done something wrong. 

 

Here are observations from a very short shakedown ride:

• The clutch effort is positively lady-like. It's almost laughably easy to pull.
• It's quieter than the original single-plate. I sort of liked the rattle of the old clutch, but I can dig quiet too.
• Engagement is quick and precise.
• Shifting is perfect.

I have to wait at least a few days for a proper ride.

 

 

that is fantastic! can't wait for the reviews

[docc]

Truly . . . I want to think it *quaint*, but my my 100,000+mile V11 flywheel is making *Pinzgauer* sounds . . .

[Scud]

 

 

 

 

that is fantastic! can't wait for the reviews

 

 

Isn't it about time for you to start a "winter project" and put yours in?  Want to borrow some tools?

[docc]

Scura-Tenni talk

[footgoose]

yes indeed it is time. I took advantage of the sale at HF and got a new lift. Have not even put it together. Will do this Sat. Bike goes on and then I can start looking at it. God knows how long this job will take. Never done anything this involved on a bike I liked so much.

 

Was there a difference in actuating rod length? Any other odd ball install niggles? Tell me it was a swap and go.

 

Yes I will borrow special tools if needed please...

 

Scura - Tenni talk yup

[Scud]

Tell me it was a swap and go.

 

 

It's a swap and go. The clutch kit has everything you need except for the schnorr washers (for the flywheel bolts) and medium loctite.

 

However, I would not use your new HF lift.  I highly recommend a platform jack and a front wheel chock. The front wheel chock will lift the front end a few inches, and the platform jack will support the engine. You can slide the platform jack on the floor with the engine on it, but you will have a very hard time doing that over the lip of the HF lift.

 

Once the engine is out, swapping the clutch is even easier than the twin plate. Yank the old one out, put 6 bolts into the new flywheel and torque them - it's cool that the RAM clutch is assembled and just bolts in as one piece. I think the only special tool you will need is the starter ring gear lock - to stop the engine from turning when you remove/install the flywheel.

 

I'd be happy to talk you through it on the phone.

[bbolesaz]

It's a swap and go.

 

But only if one has the RAM clutch kit specifically for the 6-speed transmission, yes?  Which is now unobtanium.

 

So, RAM still makes a single plate clutch kit, but it is for 5-speed transmissions.  The clutch connects to the tranny through the "Clutch Gear" which for 6-speed trannys + dual plate clutch is GU014211600 and for 6-speed trannys + single plate clutch is GU01211640. Somewhere else on the forum, there's a picture of a 6-speed clutch gear and a 5-speed clutch gear and they don't look compatible, meaning it looks like they are not only different on the clutch side but also different on the spline side where it bolts to the tranny shaft.

 

So, am I correct in thinking that there isn't a way to use the RAM 5-speed clutch kit on my 6-speed Scura.

 

It seems that my only option is to obtain an entire 6-speed dual clutch, including the clutch gear for the dual plate clutch.

[bbolesaz]

This is the 5-sp clutch gear vs. the 6-sp clutch gear.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7181&p=87145

[footgoose]

This is the 5-sp clutch gear vs. the 6-sp clutch gear.

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7181&p=87145

 

It's my understanding the only difference in the 5spd kit and the 6spd kit is the clutch gear, or hub. The hub that comes with the 6spd kit is the same as the one in our single plate bikes. Tenni, Scura, Rosso Mandello. "theoretically" you can install the 5spd kit using your clutch gear. Scud has more info to share I'm sure.

[Scud]

I know some stuff, but have to speculate a bit, because I have never laid eyes on the 5-speed bits.

 

Short answer, I believe, just as Footgoose said, that the RAM kit for 5-speed will bolt up to your crankshaft - and mate perfectly to the Scura's original transmission input gear. The guys at MG Cycle think so too.

 

I am certain that you can install a dual-plate clutch and a new input gear and it will work.

 

Let me try to sort out the input gear issue:

• 5 vs 6 speed input gears differ only in how they attach to the main shaft of the transmission. 
• Single plate vs dual plate input gears differ only in how they interface with the clutch parts. Deep ones mate to the gears in two clutch friction plates (with a steel intermediate plate between). Shallow ones mate to teeth of only one clutch plate.

Therefore, there are 4 types of input gear to be aware of:

1. 5 speed deep (for dual plate)
2. 5 speed shallow (for single plate)
3. 6 speed deep (for dual plate)
4. 6 speed shallow (for single plate)

Flywheels and clutch parts for 5 speed and 6 speed are the same (per MG Cycle and Lucky Phil's earlier posts). The only difference in the "kits" is which transmission input gear is supplied. Therefore, you should be able to install a RAM 5-speed clutch kit in your Scura. But then there is the possibility that the push-buttons on the pressure plate are different - and might require some modification to the push-rod - I think somebody was working on that recently.

 

...and is it worth it to try fit the 5-speed RAM kit? I don't know. The difference between the clutches is obvious if you are switching between two bikes - but both work well. In the long run, having a dual plate clutch will probably be easier to maintain as they've been standard on Guzzis for decades. I was going to put a dual plate in my Scura if I couldn't get the RAM parts in time.

[bbolesaz]

Dang, I hate more variables in the equation.

 

The 5-sp RAM kit is quite reasonably priced ($558.91 MG Cycle), and it sounds (per Scud) like the RAM works very well.  But if the clutch rod and the button become a problem, that would be a deal breaker.

 

On the other hand, I haven't sold a bike since the 1980's (garage gets fuller and fuller), so all of my bikes are "long-term".  The maintenance issue is important.

 

I guess I'll keep fishing for a dual plate setup and keep researching the 5-sp kit.

[Scud]

Dang, I hate more variables in the equation.

 

The 5-sp RAM kit is quite reasonably priced ($558.91 MG Cycle), and it sounds (per Scud) like the RAM works very well.  But if the clutch rod and the button become a problem, that would be a deal breaker.

 

On the other hand, I haven't sold a bike since the 1980's (garage gets fuller and fuller), so all of my bikes are "long-term".  The maintenance issue is important.

 

I guess I'll keep fishing for a dual plate setup and keep researching the 5-sp kit.

 

Haha - welcome to the agony and joys of Scura ownership. Totally worth it.