2002 v11 Scura electrical issues....need help

[footgoose]

hope that fixed it. when tracking a problem and blowing fuses, I think one of these comes in handy. auto reset fuse (breaker)

 

I didn't buy this one... went to auto zone.

 

http://www.delcity.net/store/Maxi-Fuse-Breakers/p_152.h_187700.t_1.r_IF1003?mkwid=sIDeGB8L5&crid=38094426869&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&gclid=Cj0KEQjw2ua8BRDeusOkl5qth4QBEiQA8BpQcFbVhyD5KdX_f3d2AikNATPwHG_2iTrcJ-M-1rS-DtIaAoml8P8HAQ

[plexiform]

hope that fixed it. when tracking a problem and blowing fuses, I think one of these comes in handy. auto reset fuse (breaker)

 

I didn't buy this one... went to auto zone.

 

http://www.delcity.net/store/Maxi-Fuse-Breakers/p_152.h_187700.t_1.r_IF1003?mkwid=sIDeGB8L5&crid=38094426869&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&gclid=Cj0KEQjw2ua8BRDeusOkl5qth4QBEiQA8BpQcFbVhyD5KdX_f3d2AikNATPwHG_2iTrcJ-M-1rS-DtIaAoml8P8HA

 

Seems to have worked.  

 

Loosened the steering damper a little and added some air to the tires and already feels better.  I'll have to look in to adjusting the front suspension also.  might need to be a little looser.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Footgoose, a trick I use when looking for a short is replace the fuse with a headlamp bulb, this feeds the circuit with several Amps worth of current and you get a flash of light to indicate when a short occurs.
When the lamp is cold the resistance is quite low

It sort of acts like your self resetting breaker only with a light show.

Parallel both filaments and you get enough current to supply any normal load on the bike.
 

[plexiform]

Started having my starting problem again and this time I just hear the click click of the starter and nothing after that. This started a while ago and I just haven't had a free moment to work on it. Came across this post and wondering what others think of this solution:

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/modern-no-start-issue-solution.4908/

[gstallons]

Remove your starter cover and take a test light , touch it to the small tab of the starter solenoid . Press the start button to see if the test light comes on. If so, your problem is in the starter . Remove the small wire and try wiring a starter button to same terminal and to 12v at the battery cable portion of the solenoid. If you get the same results , it's time for starter repair.

 If the starting motor works , you need to go backward into the start circuit.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Started having my starting problem again and this time I just hear the click click of the starter and nothing after that. This started a while ago and I just haven't had a free moment to work on it. Came across this post and wondering what others think of this solution:

 

http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/modern-no-start-issue-solution.4908/

I have mixed feelings, on one hand adding an extra relay will improve starting on the other by adding more complication.

 

I'm pretty much decided that the factory don't know how the starter solenoids work for the following reasons.

They never draw the solenoid coil on their schematics as it is with 2 coils, not one

They put a 15 Amp fuse on a circuit that has an inrush current of 45 Amps

 

The 45 Amps will never flow through all the connectors the small wires and wiping contact of the ignition switch

I think it's pretty much accepted that the starting will improve if you open up the ignition switch and replace the old grease with fresh Vaseline.

 

The strength of a magnetic solenoid is the product of the amps x number of turns.

On most Guzzis including very modern ones the current is throttled due to the wiring through the ignition switch. Early VIIs 2001, 2002 had the start relay powered direct from the battery through a fuse not through the switch and never had a problem from Startus Interuptus. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Remove your starter cover and take a test light , touch it to the small tab of the starter solenoid . Press the start button to see if the test light comes on. If so, your problem is in the starter . Remove the small wire and try wiring a starter button to same terminal and to 12v at the battery cable portion of the solenoid. If you get the same results , it's time for starter repair.

 If the starting motor works , you need to go backward into the start circuit.

Bear in mind when you press start with the solenoid still connected you are interested in the Voltage across the coil but this is a little tricky, if the solenoid does pull in you will immediately get a much higher Voltage as the current drops to 1/4 what it was a split second earlier.

 

If you wire in a start button it needs to be one capable of carrying 45 Amps, a small radio shack one might weld itself closed.

[plexiform]

ok I'll try these things out and report back. Thanks for the replies.

[plexiform]

I started reading my copy of Guzziology today in hopes to get some better direction on how to approach this issue and sadly this giant book has half a page dedicated to starting issues.  That seems odd given the amount of people I have run in to with starting issues on their V11.  

 

Is there a better manual for the V11 line that gives step by step instructions on how to take things apart as well as general maintenance stuff?

[plexiform]

not guzzi specific but this was really helpful for me to understand where to start.  

 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Plexiform, 

                Almost every modern Guzzi has starting problems not just the VIIs, Brevas, Norge, Grisos, EVs Jackals and many more usually it's because of the stupid wiring (starter current fed through the ignition switch), the grease in the switch gets hard with age and holds the contacts apart so the current drops until there's not enough to pull the solenoid in but too much for the fuse. All you hear is the slight click of the relay then a short while later the fuse blows. Usually it's just a simple matter of snipping the wire off the relay terminal 30 and replacing it with a direct feed from the battery.

It's not always the wiring, sometimes the magnets come unglued inside the starter itself and the end up jamming up the works Gstallons is pointing out how to test the starter independent of the wiring.

 

If you haven't done it already I urge you to pull the ignition switch apart and clean out the old grease, it's about a 15 minute job.

If you look up at the switch from under you will see two phillips screws, they hold the switch to the lock

Prize the back off

Tilt out the white plate

Wipe the grease off

Re-grease with Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline from the baby section of the drug store (use no substitute)

 

When you put it back together, try to fasten the 4 wires to the back of the switch so that they don't bend where the wires solder to the back plate.

 

That was quite a good tutorial, notice on the diagram he intros at about 3 minutes how the feed to the relay contact went from the battery, to a fuse then straight to the relay contact and on to the Trigger Wire, not through the ignition switch as your Guzzi does. The wire to the relay coil goes through the switch that's fine, it only draws about 1/10th of an Amp, the relay contacts however pass 40+ Amps through the trigger wire to pull the solenoid in. You cannot measure that current with a multimeter because it is too fast, if it works properly it drops to 10 Amps after about 0.1 of a second.

 

He told you to clean the battery terminals however he didn't mention you must apply Vaseline to the clean terminals, this is essential to prevent lead oxide forming between the post and the lug.

I keep rabbiting on about Vaseline and battery terminals because thats what I learned over 50 years ago

[plexiform]

Kiwi_roy thanks for the detailed explanation.  So here is what I've found:

 

1.  voltage across main line in to starter and battery negative terminal ....12.55v

2.  voltage across transmission and battery positive terminal...12.55v

3.  voltage across Trigger wire and battery negative termiinal shows ZERO.

4.  Neutral switch was not properly connected so this has been fixed (thanks to Scud, for helping identify this) 

 

 

Can you explain to me the procedure to clean the ignition switch again using the labeled picture below?  Is letter 'A' the back that needs to be pried off?  Is the white plate the notches I see inside of the part labeled 'B'?  Do I have to do anything with letter 'C'?  Thank you

 

 

 

[docc]

Our Ignition Switch is worth the attention and, as Kiwi_Roy often says, "It's easy."

[A: yes; B: yes; C: no]

 

 

An AGM battery  at 12.55v is little over 75% state of charge. Odyssey is adamant that the battery should be charged with at least 6 amps and 14.2 volts to bring it back to 100% (12.84v). Always discharge before charging.

[plexiform]

docc,

 

so just putting it on a battery tender (trickle charger) is not sufficient to maintain the battery?  This was a new battery 3 months ago and has been on a battery tender since I bought it.  what charger do you use to discharge and then recharge it at 6amps? 

 

I will do some reading through one of the other threads dealing with charging and voltage issues.  I think I need to go through all the connection points and make sure they are clean.  I was hoping I was getting close to a diagnosis but does not look like it yet.  

[Chuck]

No. Trickle chargers and AGMs have bad ju ju..