2002 v11 Scura electrical issues....need help

[Kiwi_Roy]

Kiwi_roy thanks for the detailed explanation.  So here is what I've found:

 

1.  voltage across main line in to starter and battery negative terminal ....12.55v

2.  voltage across transmission and battery positive terminal...12.55v

3.  voltage across Trigger wire and battery negative termiinal shows ZERO.

4.  Neutral switch was not properly connected so this has been fixed (thanks to Scud, for helping identify this) 

 

 

Can you explain to me the procedure to clean the ignition switch again using the labeled picture below?  Is letter 'A' the back that needs to be pried off?  Is the white plate the notches I see inside of the part labeled 'B'?  Do I have to do anything with letter 'C'?  Thank you

We needed to measure the Voltages while you were trying to start

Test 3 should have gone from ZERO to 10 Volts or more when you pressed start, I think you would have seen something much lower especially if it just went click. You could try that again, i expect it will start now that you have cleaned the switch because you now have much more current available.

 

 

I thought your 2002 would have the earlier wiring, If you pull out the start relay and measure for Voltage to chassis at the 30 socket

Early VIIs had 12 Volts on 30 with the key Off

Later VIIs only have 12 Volts on 30 with the ignition On

Knowing which you have makes a big difference to me.

Relay Socket

    ----  30 (normally live early models)

    ----  97

    |  |  |  85, 87a, 86

 

 

BTW you can get these bikes to crank over by hot wiring from 30 to 97 in the case of the early ones or battery+ to 97 on any model, you will get a bit of a spark 40+ Amps after all.

[plexiform]

So the ingition switch is out and apart.  One thing I did not do is keep track of how the contacts were fitted together.  Any trick on how to put it back together other than just best guess based on the couple pics I have from before it came apart?  I'm assuming the position of fitting the pieces together matters.  

 

I've cleaned the grease off with just a paper towel and cleaned the copper contacts.

 

When I try to fit it together I can here a series of electrical sounding clicking sounds coming from the relays as the copper plates rotate on the silver circles (middle picture).  Is this normal or should this worry me?

[Kiwi_Roy]

I'm not sure you can get it together wrong because of the slot in the shaft, I never take note when I pull one apart but you can also figure it out from the schematic.

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif

In Park position fuse 6 is alive and the tail light is On 3 wires I K & L are connected

 

The On position is when the relays should pick up, at that point all 4 wires I J K & L will be connected together and the tail light will be On

 

In the Lock and Off position only I & K are joined through the jumper at the back of the switch.

 

I hope you did the Vaseline trick or it will quickly wear out.

 

Please do the test on the start relay contact 30, I think it should be alive with the key Off same as my 2001

[plexiform]

1. How much Vaseline do you put on?

2. Do I put the Vaseline directly on the contacts from where I just wiped the old grease?

[Kiwi_Roy]

Perhaps about a Q tip size blob, yes it lubricates the contacts to stop them wearing away

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

[plexiform]

Got it back together but it still does not start.  

 

I still hear a single click at the starter but doesn't turn the engine.

 

The battery voltage has me really confused.  After charging it with a new charger designed for AGM batteries it reads 14.3v across the leads while its charging.  13.3v when fully charged and no charger attached to the leads.  Then after trying to start, it reads 12.2v  I attached a battery tender wifi device that tells me the status of the battery and it reads anywhere from 80% charged to 100%charged in a matter of minutes. I plan on removing this device at it seems useless. I just put it on yesterday for the first time to see if it gave any meaningful information.

 

This is a less than 6month old battery and has been maintained with a battery tender the whole time I've had it. Which I'm learning now is not the best approach for an AGM battery.

 

1.  Is this battery a problem?  Yuasa 12v 13aH (10hr) VRLA YTX15L-BS (M6215L)

2.  Can you give instructions on locating and testing the start relay 30?

3.  What would you recommend trying next to figure out why it won't start? 

4.  Can anyone list all the ground contacts that need to be cleaned (where they are usually located and what methods you use to clean a ground contact)?

 

Relays were all recently updated.

Ignition is clean and lubed with fresh vaseline.

Battery is new but not sure what to make of the voltage readings I'm getting.

I have not put vaseline on the battery leads yet so will do that next.  

 

[swooshdave]

I would not worry about the battery too much. I suspect it's not the problem.

[footgoose]

I would worry about the battery. From experience I can attest to a battery that's been recently charged, can be faulty. Especially after being "maintained"on a trickle charger. An easy test is to use another battery. If you can't do that, take yours to a reputable battery store and have it checked. It's free, and you can go home with a new one if it's bad. Whatever you learn, wondering about the battery will be ended.

[czakky]

Main ground is behind the seat lock, usually on a transmission bolt.

Have you groomed the wires to the starter?

[swooshdave]

I would worry about the battery. From experience I can attest to a battery that's been recently charged, can be faulty. Especially after being "maintained"on a trickle charger. An easy test is to use another battery. If you can't do that, take yours to a reputable battery store and have it checked. It's free, and you can go home with a new one if it's bad. Whatever you learn, wondering about the battery will be ended.

 

While I don't disagree that it could be the battery it usually something as simple as a loose wire.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Lets get our feet wet.

With this test we are trying to establish the battery is connected and able to supply enough power to crank, we don't need the key or the Kill Switch to be On

 

Test a)   Put a spade lug on about 3 feet of #16 or #18 wire

Slip it on the starter solenoid trigger terminal

Make sure the bike is in neutral Hold in the clutch to be sure

Flash the other end of the wire onto battery positive

What happens?   If it works skip to Test c)

 

Test b )  If it doesn't turn over

Connect your meter or a 12V lamp to chassis with the other wire on 12 Volts positive The meter must read 12V or the light must go, agreed?

Flash the end of your trigger wire to battery positive

What happened that time?

 

Test c)  If it does turn over at Test a)

Remove the Start Relay

Flash the trigger wire to socket 30 of the Start Relay, this will test the relay is getting enough current to engage the starter.

What Happened?

 

Test d)  If it passed Test c) then we will test the complete Start circuit high current wiring

Remove the temporary trigger wire

Put the original trigger wire back on the solenoid trigger terminal

Now with a short length of wire touch the start relay socket from 87 to 30

If it doesn't crank you may have to turn the key On

 

Get back

 

When you say the starter clicks be a bit more specific, is it the soft click of the relay or loud click/clunk of the solenoid.

[plexiform]

TEST A:  I hear the solenoid click but engine does not turn over.  I get a spark at the positive terminal of the battery.

 

TEST B:  12v lamp turns on.  Meter reads it at 12.66v.  Same thing as before....Solenoid click is heard but no engine turning over.  Spark at positive terminal is seen.

 

The click I am hearing is definitely the solenoid loud click.  

[Kiwi_Roy]

Measure the volts on the starter terminal now the large one below the solenoid if it goes +8 or higher you may have a problem in the starter.

 

 

Sent from my shoe phone!

[plexiform]

with the voltmeter black wire on the starter terminal (under the solenoid terminal) and red wire on the positive terminal of the battery....this gives me 12.68v

[Kiwi_Roy]

Ok seems like you will have to take a look inside at 12.66 I don't think its pulling any current, a stuck brush or something perhaps.

 

I have to go out now so just take it apart and lay it out on the bench in order or lake lots of pictures.