Fantasy time

[knumbnutz]

 

A filter fitted right shouldn't come loose, it doesn't on any other engine (apart from a specific technical issue as with the MV) and a Guzzi twin is nothing special in that regard. I think the main issue is that the old Guzzi is probably worked on by more backyard mechanics than most and not enough regard is given to proper fitment.

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. I don't get why it would be any different since I couldn't imagine any shop would fit a clamp.

On the flip side for arguments sake, I don't think there are too many oil filters (in a canister) embedded in the sump? 

And from an engineering point of view, why would you pressurise the filter instead of having it before the pump, that just doesn't make any sense since the last place you want damaged is the pump !

[Craig]

If I may ask, what did you use for a tightening procedure? I ask because I was raised in the era of "tighten by hand" or "finger tight . . . . "  for automotive-type canister filters.

 

Hand tight + 1 turn is my usual for all canister filters.  Whether I did it on this one or not will be cause for endless speculation...

 

Why do you need to remove the crankcase studs?

 

I don't really "need" to now.  I was having a lot of trouble getting one of the rods removed and being able to invert the block without bending the studs would have been helpful.  My engine stand has been on loan for a while and the borrower has been scarce lately.  Figures, it hasn't been used in two years...

 

@Craig - I'm not trying to criticize you. I appreciate your honesty about the situation (and I am 100% sympathetic). I hope we all (self-included) learn something from it. I often get interrupted (dinner, kids, phone calls, etc.) during my projects. That's when I am most likely to make a mistake - I forget where I was in the process when I restart.

 

I grew up in the U.S. Navy as a Submarine Nuclear Propulsion Officer, as long as you leave my family out of the discussion there is no possible technical criticism you could make that will offend me.  It happened and understanding why is much more important than my feelings.  Your chain of event analysis is spot on.  As with all reasonably well engineered machines, operator error is at the heart of the failure. Mea Culpa.

 

A filter fitted right shouldn't come loose, it doesn't on any other engine (apart from a specific technical issue as with the MV) and a Guzzi twin is nothing special in that regard. I think the main issue is that the old Guzzi is probably worked on by more backyard mechanics than most and not enough regard is given to proper fitment.

 

Yes, this.  Which is why I decided not to open the sump back up and put the hose clamp on.  It was belt and suspender and I trusted the belt to work until the next change.  I have never had an oil filter so much as weep after an oil change (no one touches my engines but me, so I must be in the hundreds by now) and I trusted the "belt" to hold up while I waited for the suspenders.

 

I don't bother with a hose clamp either. I've been using 1 1/8 turns past first contact - which is probably about the same as hand-tight plus 3/4 turn that Chuck mentioned.

 

I am beginning to think that my hand wasn't clean enough and hand tight wasn't as tight as it normally is.  Maybe old age and grip loss?

 

On the flip side for arguments sake, I don't think there are too many oil filters (in a canister) embedded in the sump? 

And from an engineering point of view, why would you pressurize the filter instead of having it before the pump, that just doesn't make any sense since the last place you want damaged is the pump !

 

There is a filter of sorts around the oil pickup.  That metal mesh screen is a filter with very low head loss.  If you put too restrictive a filter on the inlet of a pump you may cavitate it (slightly different effect with oil, but you can stall the pump), which helps nothing.  All pumps have a characteristic  called "Net Positive Suction Head" (NPSH) which is essentially how much restriction they can tolerate in their inlets before they stop pumping.  Even self-priming positive displacement pumps have a finite NPSH and the simple geared volute pump on the Guzzi doesn't look to have a very large NPSH.  The filter setup is correct, just difficult to access. 

[Camn]

There is a torque spec for the V11 oil filter?

It is printed on the UFI filter. I have saved this from the German V11 site (translation into English my own):

“

Tightening torques exist for the UFI filter. The old one (8 layer) 12 Nm, the new one (14 layer) for the Carc models 15 Nm. On both of these filters the on printed tightening torque is 10-12 Nm. To change the filter, you need a filter tool and if possible, a torque tool. Up till 2009 there were oil leaks because of an imperfect seal. Mainly on Norge, Breva, Griso 850/1100, 1200Sport2V, Bellagio and Cali Vintage. Guzzi recommends according the training material from 3/2010 to replace the gasket of the filter with a new gasket Cod. 981115. This gasket has the same measurements, but the material has different properties. If the manufacturing date of the filter is before 2009, the gasket needs to be changed.

“

[Craig]

 

There is a torque spec for the V11 oil filter?

It is printed on the UFI filter. I have saved this from the German V11 site (translation into English my own):

“

Tightening torques exist for the UFI filter. The old one (8 layer) 12 Nm, the new one (14 layer) for the Carc models 15 Nm. On both of these filters the on printed tightening torque is 10-12 Nm. To change the filter, you need a filter tool and if possible, a torque tool. Up till 2009 there were oil leaks because of an imperfect seal. Mainly on Norge, Breva, Griso 850/1100, 1200Sport2V, Bellagio and Cali Vintage. Guzzi recommends according the training material from 3/2010 to replace the gasket of the filter with a new gasket Cod. 981115. This gasket has the same measurements, but the material has different properties. If the manufacturing date of the filter is before 2009, the gasket needs to be changed.

“

 

12Nm is about 9ft pounds.  That seems very low, I can easily hand tighten to 15 foot pounds.

[docc]

 

 

There is a torque spec for the V11 oil filter?

It is printed on the UFI filter. I have saved this from the German V11 site (translation into English my own):

“

Tightening torques exist for the UFI filter. The old one (8 layer) 12 Nm, the new one (14 layer) for the Carc models 15 Nm. On both of these filters the on printed tightening torque is 10-12 Nm. To change the filter, you need a filter tool and if possible, a torque tool. Up till 2009 there were oil leaks because of an imperfect seal. Mainly on Norge, Breva, Griso 850/1100, 1200Sport2V, Bellagio and Cali Vintage. Guzzi recommends according the training material from 3/2010 to replace the gasket of the filter with a new gasket Cod. 981115. This gasket has the same measurements, but the material has different properties. If the manufacturing date of the filter is before 2009, the gasket needs to be changed.

“

 

12Nm is about 9ft pounds.  That seems very low, I can easily hand tighten to 15 foot pounds.

 

I tried to simply turn my filter tool on a torque wrench with my (busted-up) bare hand and could not get quite to 9 NM.  Looks like 15NM may be more reliable (?)

 

I will endeavor to measure the torque on the "1 & 1/8" turns past contact acknowledging that there are so many variables.

[Camn]

Took some photos, bought this year, made in... "a night in Tunisia"

[docc]

Shouldn't it read "Check for spun bearings?"

 

Oh, yeah - "A Night in Tunisia"

[Craig]

So here is where I stand today:
1.  Packed up the heads and sent them off to Mike Rich for a CNC port, new valves and guides. 
2.  At Mike's suggestion, I am stick with the Sport Cam and valve springs. 
3.  I don't think the Carillo rods will add much, especially with the RAM clutch going in so the bottom end will be stock. 
4.  A kind soul over at WildGuzzi sold me a decent California crankshaft and Sport rods for a song.  I am cleaning up the rods and sending the rotating assembly out for a good balance. 
5.  I also have a set of Joe Caruso timing gears going in
6.  A Jeffries ECU kit is on the way.  I will probably weld an additional bung on the left side to get wideband AFR on both sides.
7.  The oil pressure sender will be wired to a relay controlling the ignition so that it cuts out if oil pressure drops.
 
I missed out on the extender mod buy, so I will make one myself and implement the Phil mods.  I have a weep back there from a recent pawl spring change so it has to come out anyway.
 
Number 7 was a joke.

[Scud]

You had me going there at #7, then I saw the fine print.

 

Great progress.

 

What, if anything, do you have to do to the California crankshaft?

[Chuck]

You had me going there at #7, then I saw the fine print.

 

Great progress.

 

What, if anything, do you have to do to the California crankshaft?

 

I *think* it's just a re balance.

[Craig]

 

You had me going there at #7, then I saw the fine print.

 

Great progress.

 

What, if anything, do you have to do to the California crankshaft?

 

I *think* it's just a re balance.

 

 

That is my understanding as well.  Of course, this being Guzzi there was a California that had lighter rods blah, blah, blah...In any event, its getting a rebalance.

[Craig]

Telaio Azzuro connecting rods, polished, 13 grams lighter, balanced to within 0.1 grams:

Why? Because I can.

 

I apologize for the lack of a hammer in this shot.

[Scud]

Those look cool. Good job taking a picture, since we all hope to never see them again after assembly. 

[Lucky Phil]

These look cooler

 

 

Ciao

[docc]

these look cooler

 

 

Ciao

I want me some lightened, polished, balanced rods, too. But those things  ^   . . . have to be grown onto the crankshaft like an Avatar on Mars?

 

They look beyond even sintered and fractured . . .