2004 Lemans oil

[MartyNZ]

What weight 5-40 or 20 50, ?

I had a wee rant about oil earlier, but didn't answer your question.

My 03 Owners Manual says use Agip 4t Super Racing SAE 20W50. But then the maintenance section says 20W-40, 20W-50, 15W-40, 10W-40, and 10W-30 can be used. Then experienced riders like Phil say that they use 0W-40.

So does it matter what viscosity you use?

The attached diagram shows that 5W-40 & 20W-50 have a big difference in viscosity when cold, when high viscosity is just a burden. But there is little difference between -40 and -50 oils when hot. We can see that the last two digits of 20W-50 are the target viscosity for the engine design clearances when it is hot. This is sometimes called the operating temperature viscosity. The first two digits are less important, except that lower is better. Hence Phil's 0W-40 is probably quite good.

If you are uncertain about using thin oil, you could check the oil pressure when running with it (if you have access to a gauge). Your low pressure switch turns on below .35 kg/cm2 (5psi), and your pressure relief valve opens above 3.8 kg/cm2 (55psi). Pressure below .35 is dangerous, and pressure above 3.8 is ported back to the sump, so that pump power is wasted.

As an aside, MG twins have a dry clutch & separate gearbox oil, so this means that you don't need to buy motorcycle oil without friction modifiers. You will not get clutch slip from slippery oil. Air cooled engines can get hot compared to water cooled, so I don't think you should use cheap high zoot snake oil fortified lemming squeezings in your engine.

As Docc said: "...change your oil, be careful about the V11 oil filter..."

His bike is passing 100,000 miles, so he shows us that using any good oil is ok.

[Lucky Phil]

If I could buy a grp 4 or 5, -10W/40 then I would.

 

Ciao

[O2 V11]

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products-categs.php?id_categ=7&id_subcateg=95

 

Rob

[docc]

I looked, but could not find any specification of the base oil in the Lucas 20-50.

 

The first 30,000 miles I used Castrol GTX 20-50 mineral oil, then Mobile1 15-50 for just a couple changes (like many, my confidence in their products is not what it once was), then then Lucas 2-50 50,000 miles or so, with a couple brief flirts with Mob1 5-40 Turbodiesel (high ZDDP), and Mob1 V-Twin SG when the Lucas was unavailable.

 

Avoiding "Energy Conserving" oils is something I picked up from Pete Roper, as I recall; something to do with the rings seating on the cylinder walls?

 

@ Jazzamoto, I can't find where Dave Richardson (Guzziology, Version 8.2)) discusses why Guzzi changed the viscosity spec for the later V11? He has a lot of other great advice, though, like , " . . . SG service rating is more important than viscosity selection . . ." and  ". . . use an oil that you can find and don't mind changing often . . ." 

 

@Colorobo, talking oil is, of course, a never-ending discussion, which isn't a bad thing, just that there will be no final answer. It's easy to say, "Use what the factory specifies." But, either of those viscosities will be fine. I suppose there is some consensus here that the specialized (racing?) oil companies have some great products (in the States: Motul, Agip, Redline, Lucas, Royal Purple . . .) and that those oils are more likely to have the higher anti-wear package (zinc & phosphorous/ ZDDP) that you will not find in conventional, modern passenger car oils because of the deleterious effects on catalytic converters.

[MartyNZ]

I looked, but could not find any specification of the base oil in the Lucas 20-50.

 

I can't find where Dave Richardson (Guzziology, Version 8.2)) discusses why Guzzi changed the viscosity spec for the later V11?

The Lucas website does not say anything about their chemistry, which means to me that at best it is a group 3 oil. This is still a fine oil, but will suffer from additive degradation. Over extended time it will perform poorly compared to a group 4 oil. If you used it for long enough, you would observe a gradual hot engine oil pressure decrease as the viscosity index improver additives are destroyed. The normal oil change interval solves this problem.

http://lucasoil.com/products/lucas-motor-oil

I see that Guzziology version 8.3 page 3-14 has 5 pages of advice on oil, filters, and oil change intervals. My take on his advice is there are many options available, and your previous advice is good: "use good oil, and change it often".

[Jazzamoto]

@ Jazzamoto, I can't find where Dave Richardson (Guzziology, Version 8.2)) discusses why Guzzi changed the viscosity spec for the later V11? He has a lot of other great advice, though, like , " . . . SG service rating is more important than viscosity selection . . ." and  ". . . use an oil that you can find and don't mind changing often . . ." 

 

docc,

I'll stand corrected. My Guzziology Version 6.1 has comments about 5W-40 oil on page 3-15 "Viscosity Ratings" and 3-17 "Specific oil recommendations for PI engines with hydraulic lifters"  but nothing specific to my 2004 Cafe Sport, which is interesting since Version 6.1 came out in 2007.  Maybe after the hydraulic lifter boondoggle they decided that it might be a good idea to expand the use of 5W-40 to other models??

 

I also always looked for the SG rated stuff but have trouble finding much of it these days. The official factory recommendation is for "Agip RACING 4T SAE 5W-40" which I couldn't find anywhere, of course. I'm using "Castrol Power 1 Full Synthetic 5W-40 4T" which is rated JASO MA-2, ADI "SL". Evidently the rating system has been updated and "SL" exceeds "SG". But don't quote me on that!

 

Cheers docc!

 

Jazz

[docc]

"Exceeding" a prior rating is all about meeting the most current specification. These days, that means making catalytic converters last beyond the manufacturer's replacement obligation (75,000 miles?). Yet, it is the anti-wear ZDDP that keeps our air-cooled, flat tappet Guzzi motors in the blond that has been systematically reduced.

 

True SG is an enigma, as is finding true ester Group 4 base oil.  These things will always be more important than the viscosity range from what I can read and learn and try to understand.

 

From there, we're left to frequent changes, use filters with box-section gaskets (not "O-rings), cinch them 1 1/8 turns from the gasket contact and consider the hose-clamp method.

 

If I were going to use a 5-40, I would look for a diesel rating to get the anti-wear package (CI-4/CJ-4), like Mob1 TurboDiesel or similar. Again, no idea what base oil that actually uses.

 

Always great to check in with Richard Widman on oil for air-cooled flat tappet engines (Corvair). His opinions are factually based and much applies to our big block Guzzis:

 

http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html

[MartyNZ]

...the anti-wear ZDDP...[/url]

To add to Docc's wisdom, Penrite, my current favorite oil manufacturer, has this helpful writeup about zinc / ZDDP / dialkyldithiophosphate additive in oil. They begin by saying: "There is a lot of hysteria over zinc levels in oils, especially in the latest specification engine oils. Many of these myths and stories are unfounded. To understand more read the latest up to date information here:"

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/0Zinc%20Myths%20&%20Legends%20Nov%202014.pdf

I see that they talk about phosphorus at the same time as zinc. This comes from zinc-dialkyldithiophosphate burning when it gets past the rings or valves. Freed phosphorus can poison the catalytic converter if one is fitted.

Edited August 21, 2016 by MartyNZ

[docc]

That is one of the most informative, and concise, writings on the subject I have yet seen.

 

It's the first time I have read that higher Zn/P were predicated by the lead in the fuels.

[Colorobo]

I was asking because the owners manual states 5 40 and the shop want 20 50 . I live in Denver and may want to ride a little in the winter. but don't want the oil to cause problems. I think ill go with the manual. ROB

[passator cortese]

For what is my knowledge during the years Moto Guzzi has released some updates about engine oil through technical bulletins, of course the owner's manual in your possession hasn't been updated.

What Moto Guzzi prescribe (and what the specialized Guzzi mechanics in Italy prescribe) now is SAE 10W-60 for all the Guzzis except the California models equipped with hydraulic tappets.

 

But choosing a 20W50 instead a 10W60 because is cheaper it really doesn't make a a big difference in our engines specially if you live in an area where winters are not so cold and summers are not so warm and you are not often struck in the traffic where our air cooled engines suffers the most.

[footgoose]

I like what I'm reading about Penrite. I can't find it for sale in USA except one place in California with no website, and ebay... don't want to use ebay for this.

[Chuck]

For what is my knowledge during the years Moto Guzzi has released some updates about engine oil through technical bulletins, of course the owner's manual in your possession hasn't been updated.

What Moto Guzzi prescribe (and what the specialized Guzzi mechanics in Italy prescribe) now is SAE 10W-60 for all the Guzzis except the California models equipped with hydraulic tappets.

 

But choosing a 20W50 instead a 10W60 because is cheaper it really doesn't make a a big difference in our engines specially if you live in an area where winters are not so cold and summers are not so warm and you are not often struck in the traffic where our air cooled engines suffers the most.

I don't normally chime in on an oil thread.. .. but I put Motul 10-60 in engines I care about. Yeah, it does get hot and cold here.    Does it make a difference? Probably not.

[passator cortese]

yes, never heard about a Guzzi engine destroyed by using the wrong oil.

[andy york]

I use schaeffer oils and lubes

 

http://www.schaefferoil.com

 

good stuff   thats all I wills on the matter    LOL